IDL55 Season 2: Chief Inspiration Officer: Connect to Your Team with Val Ries

Why should leaders lead from a place of positive vision instead of constant criticism? Do you look forward to having tough conversations? Are you stuck in a leadership CAVE?

Today’s guest, Val Ries, is the author of the book, Chief Inspiration Officer. As she and Tyler dig through her book, Val shares a lot of practical tools, especially the value of practicing empathy. Her C.R.A.V.E. toolkit breaks empathy down into its fundamentals, as she explains how leaders can foster meaningful, productive connections with their teams.

Meet Val Ries

Val is the Founder of Executive Muse and the Author of Chief Inspiration Officer: How to Lead the Team Everyone Wants to Be On.

Val invested many years learning the techniques for getting the most from her team; absorbing every book, course or article she could find. For a while, she was Director of Sales and Training for a team of 31 people— but she later realized that she wanted to help create productive employees for every executive and leader, not just those in her organization.

So, Val left her corporate role and became focused on the psychology of leading people. She studied what intrinsically motivates employees, communication techniques to enhance connection and the neuroscience of emotions. She earned her MBA and leadership coaching certification, and then founded Executive Muse to help leaders craft their unique leadership style and lead the team everyone wants to be on.  ​

Visit Executive Muse and connect with them on Facebook and Instagram. Connect with Val on Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.

IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

•       Becoming the manager everyone wants to have (8:30)

•       How to have a tough conversation (14:54)

•       Empathy in leadership (19:10)

•       Get out of the CAVE (24:10)

Becoming the manager everyone wants to have

Managers have the tough job of being the go-betweens in the company. However, they have the important vantage point of being both a leader and having been an employee before. They can draw on two fields of expertise.

People are rarely inspired to change by negativity or frustration. Most often, real change comes from sincere celebration, reward, and teamwork.

As the manager, work with what is already working well and build that up to inspire the rest of the company and team to grow, instead of becoming upset with what is not currently growing.

How to have a tough conversation

Difficult conversations are growth opportunities. They require courage, respect, and self-awareness.

If you are nervous or afraid of having a tough conversation, you are more likely to avoid it.

Work to get to a place where a tough conversation is exciting because you understand that it presents an opportunity for growth and a deeper connection.

Empathy in leadership

Empathy in leadership is about having care, compassion, and the desire to see the people on your team become the best version of themselves.

Humility and empathy allow leaders to walk alongside their employees, instead of dragging them or pushing them beyond what they can truly accomplish at that moment.

Remember that empathy is different from sympathy. Empathy is about empowering and supporting someone, whereas sympathy can be about being the hero in someone else’s story.

Be the inspiration and the example, instead of the dictator or the micromanager.

Get out of the CAVE

C – Criticism: critiquing and judging people is what can keep a leader separated and isolated.

A – Assuming: making assumptions isolate people from finding out the truth.

V – Victim-mindset: questioning your worth and thinking you are incapable as a leader in times of crisis.

E – Enclosed patterns: patterns that isolate leaders because they become default reactions, such as being defensive, passive, avoidant, or passive-aggressive.

Get out of the CAVE as a leader by providing your employees with what they CRAVE in a leader.

C – Connection: is my leader providing connection?

R – Reliability: will my leader do what they say?

A – Appreciation: does my leader vocalize my achievements and my contributions to the team?

V – Valuable: do I feel that my leader thinks my work is valuable?

E – Effective communication: does my leader embody, appreciate, and provide effective communication in our team?

Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:

BOOK | Val Ries – Chief Inspiration Officer: How to Lead the Team Everyone Wants to Be On

Visit the Executive Muse website and connect with them on Facebook and Instagram

Connect with Val on Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn

The Impact Driven Leader YouTube Channel

Join the Impact Driven Leader Community

Connect with Tyler on Instagram and LinkedIn

Email Tyler: tyler@tylerdickerhoof.com

About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast

The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.

Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.

I was not giving my team what I myself wanted… I wanted connection when I came to work.

Val Ries

Podcast Transcription

[TYLER DICKERHOOF] Hey there. Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. So glad you're joining in listening to another episode. Whether you're a subscriber or someone shared it with you, I'm glad you're here. If you're not a subscriber, I'd love for you to subscribe. So you get each episode whenever it releases. Thank you for sharing a review, rating, letting me know how much you enjoy the show and where I can get better because honestly my desire is to get better, to add more value to you. Today's guest is Val Ries. So excited to share our conversation. She's the author of the book, Chief Inspiration Officer. As we go through that, dig through that book, she shares a lot of practical tools, but also as I just as we talk about this idea of empathy and practicing empathy, you've heard a lot about it. You'll continue to hear more about it. As she goes through her tool cave, it's where leaders go to die really, and how to get out of them. It's really through her action steps or tool of crave that I truly believe it's empathy in action. You're going to learn about crave in this interview and I can't wait to talk about it more at the end. So until the end, I'll see you then. [VAL RIES] The audience that I see every day is varying from people that, I have some startups and founders that are in their early twenties. They had a great concept, right out of college and now they're managing a 40, 50 person team and 40 million in revenue. They are being thrown into everything from how to create a good and effective mission statement and PowerPoint and onboarding experience to how to give performance reviews. They've never done any of this stuff to; lead leaders who have been managing for quite some time and they're hitting a certain speed bump. They do, they feel alone on an island. Things have worked in the past, but they still want to lead as effectively as possible. They are second-guessing how to do that and how to navigate corporate politics in an effective way without all that burnout. So I definitely see a little bit of everything from the Gen-X to the folks that have been doing it for a while and want to be more impactful. [TYLER] So let me jump in here, Val, and we'll just, as we're now recording, we can cut this up. However, how did you end up, I know your history from a nursing into veterinary product diagnostic sales into now an author and executive muse, but guide the audience listening in, how did that all fit together? Meaning, how did you find yourself in this place to say, wow, this is broken and I want to try to fix it. [VAL] So when I transitioned from nursing to medical sales, I was doing that for a few years. I went and earned my MBA and my boss came to me one day and said, "I'm going to get promoted. Do you want to take over my team?" I thought, okay, this is exciting. I'm in my early twenties and this is going to be a new opportunity for me and didn't hire anyone on the team. I was thrown into making a lot of assumptions that leading people was going to be easy because I --- [TYLER] So at this point, were you leading then you got thrust into leading your peers? [VAL] Yes. [TYLER] Okay, I just wanted to clarify that because I think that's probably pretty important. That's a was pretty big hurdle. [VAL] Yes, yes. Thanks for making that distinction, because I think it's common, we inherit a team whether they were peers and we come in or we just inherit. So I just assumed that leadership was going to be easy and that, because I did well in icy role that I would just have this like natural level of respect, but I hit a lot of resistance and I also felt the pressure of doing well and hitting goals. So I, without realizing was transferring that pressure onto everyone else. I started to feel like I was failing. I thought I was going to lose my job, Tyler. I'm like, I can't have this happen. I don't want to lose my job. What's going on here? What am I missing? So I started to think about, okay, if I was the employee again, what was I craving from my boss? How can I deliver more of that? What is that? I journaled for hours, just like pouring my heart on a piece of paper. Then I ranked myself on every sentence and I started giving myself like a four out of 10, a five out of 10. So I was not giving my team what I, myself wanted, things like approachability. Like I want to be able to come to my manager without feeling like he, or she's going to get mad at me for asking a question. Well, how approachable was I? I was, well, I'm a five because I'm getting worked up. So the transition came when I started to shift and I saw the impact that had, and I --- [TYLER] It was you shifting those activities. So you made this amazingly reflective. Some of us had to get beat on the side of the head with this. You chose to be very internally reflective, which I think is awesome and amazing. Then all you said, well, how do I start acting like that, which I want? [VAL] Yes, exactly. How can I, to even get more specific, it was like when we had team meetings, I really wanted connection when I came to work. Well, when I was running a meeting, how much connection was I creating with the group? How much comradery and celebration was I doing? I wanted those things. I wanted to feel part of a community. So I started tweaking and being more mindful of how I was bringing the group together. That's just one example. And people were responding. So in the book I talk about the five things employees crave and that really brings down to, CRAVE, the acronym, which was really exciting. I started to do more of those things that people were craving and I saw the end result and I had the opportunity to then do it in a different department, in a different department. It was working everywhere I went. So that was a transition. I wanted to teach people how to lead because I also saw the opposite. I would go to these executive meetings and I saw the nastiness and the finger pointing and the yelling and it was so ugly. I thought, no, there has to be a better way. So here I am. [TYLER] Let me jump in. Because again, I made that two points is one you're leading your peers and then two, you chose to be very internally reflective saying, okay, what would I want? I look at myself and say that, man, I wish I'd only had that. I, unfortunately was blind to it and a lot of my own blind spot. That can happen for a lot of leaders. I think that's, people, we all have blind spots and I had to have other people share it with me and then want to transform to be better. You make all those lists, what was, where did you find the tools to then start changing how you were acting? Because I think that's important if you recognize it. Amazing, but then you have to go out and say, oh, instead of choosing to be all driven about me, I need to connect with people and help them get to where they want to go. As part of that connection with crave, how did you decide to do that? Or how did you start practicing doing that? [VAL] I think I realized that the pressure of being a manager and hitting goals was making it so that I was leading in a constant state of frustration. Then when I was communicating with people, it was always from a place of lack or what wasn't working, what I didn't appreciate, what they needed to do better. It was the epiphany that I can't lead from that place of pressure. I have to lead from what's possible and what is good already around me and I want to start looking at all the gifts and the strengths that people have. I want to start vocalizing that. I made that shift from being authoritative or being punitive or micromanaging to celebrating and guiding and coaching people towards a big picture while leveraging what is great about them and what I appreciate about them. That made a huge difference. It didn't mean that I couldn't challenge them to be better and that I was just their friend. It wasn't about that. It was just communicating from a place of what's possible versus what's not there. [TYLER] I mean, if I had to describe that it's leading from a place of vision. It's creating this vision and inviting people in as opposed to dictating and telling them what to do. I think that's a lot of times and leadership and the experience that you early twenties, maybe haven't been in many leadership positions, you're like, "Oh, I'm a top performer. Well, I'll just expect people to do the same thing that I was doing." The reality is no one else was like Val. No one else of your peers operated like you did, but obviously the person put you into that position, your manager, your boss, they saw something in you. Do you know what that was at that point? Did they communicate that to you or just said, "Hey, you're next one up. I'm out." [VAL] I think like most ICs that are promoted, usually you just do well at that particular job. So I had success as a sales representative. I had customers that I bonded with and that were loyal and my boss said, "Well, if she can do that, she can do this." That's so common and I think it really leads to a lot of confusion for leaders because they're like, well, this is a totally different role. [TYLER] Totally. [VAL] You're not necessarily guiding other people when you're in an IC role. [TYLER] What do you think, and I haven't even got to any of the notes that I was going to ask, which is great. I love that. What do you think, because I love digging into this because as a case study, I guess I didn't share this, those listeners that are listening in, I prefer to make this very conversational. I hope you're comfortable with that. I didn't prep you with that, but here we are. This idea that you got thrust into what you're leading your peers, you're like, I have no idea what I'm doing. I think it's amazing that you were able to be so internally reflective and we'll get into that more. But I want to for the person that's listening today and they're listening in and here the beginning of 20, 22, and they're like, how do I help my team perform better? Especially in the world that we're in today and yet maybe their trans positioning and they're bringing someone else in, into a leadership position. I just wonder, and this question that I wrote down is what would've made that transition on you as an independent as an individual contributor to then a team leader, what would've made that transition easier? Like how could that Baton have past that? You're like that would've helped me so much. [VAL] that's a good question. So I think what, where I was confused and I talk about this, like right in the first chapter of the book, it's like, who am I. Am I a friend? Am I trying to be really supportive and nurture and compassionate? Am I someone who is going to be no, like, let's go and put the pressure and take more of that. Maybe like authoritative micromanaging approach, or am I someone who just sits back and lets my team do what they need to do, however they need to do it and I'm hands off. I think we all have our natural strengths, but I remember just feeling confused. Like what do I say in these awkward situations? How do I dress X, Y, and Z? That led to me almost doing nothing at times. So I think knowing that leadership is actually a balance of all three and you are, you are dancing with this idea that at any given time you might be holding back and letting someone fail. [VAL] Even though you have the answer as a leader you may need to step in and remind somebody of strengths and be more encouraging and take on that front role. But if you do it too much, then you can get walked all over. If you're too intentionally passive, I call it intentionally passive. Then people are going to start to not necessarily know where to go and they're not going to feel guided. So then at times you, you have to step in and give that very direct guidance, which I call having high standards. But if you do that too much, you're going to come off like a micromanager. So you're dancing and you're balancing constantly. You're being mindful of all three of these buckets, so to speak and adapting and shifting to Penn on what that particular employee needs in the moment. [VAL] So I wish I would've known that because that's like the first chapter of the book. It's like, let's just set this foundation that you are not one or the other. You are all three. I think that's what I would want to know first. The other thing I would want to know is how do you have a tough conversation? It's so nerve wracking. When you have someone in subordinate or dramatic or toxic, what do you do? How do you redirect it in a way that doesn't create conflict? So I get into that in the final part of the book, how to master the art of challenging conversations. But I wish I had a template and I wish somebody practiced those things with me and role played so I was more prepared for how to handle those little tough moments. [TYLER] To me it's probably one of the most difficult parts of leadership that a lot of people try to avoid and to a fault. It's like I don't want to give feedback because then I'm going to have to deal with that. This is what I found though. It takes courage is when, this is my belief and I'd love for you to weigh in on this is once you come to grips with having those tough conversations; and to me, it's being courageous. You can almost find like an exuberance in being courageous. And it's not tearing people down, but it's having that conversation because so much greatness comes from having those conversations, either internally, like I learn so much or externally where the other person, it's like this light goes off and you're like, if you avoid those opportunities of great growth. You limit yourself so much, but when you can go into them with so much courage. I think the key is, as you mentioned, and I have a way describing it, this balance of the high standards, the intentional passivity, the cheerleader, if you balance that in those conversations and show your heart, man, I can't help, but think they're good. If they're not good, then it's a good conversation because then you separate. So I'd love for you to weigh in on all that I just shared there. [VAL] Well, I love that you're relating a tough conversation to a sense of excitement because when you get there that you've mastered that because it is, when it's nerve wracking and you're nervous and you're not sure, you're not confident that's when you might be more inclined to avoid it. But when you're excited to have a tough conversation, as silly as that sounds, you're excited because you have a vision and you have a goal and you know that when you can have conversations, either somebody's going to move forward or eventually they'll phase out. That is exciting because then you have the right people on the journey with you. I remember that feeling. I remember when I was smiling, like, okay, I'm getting ready to share this and I'm excited to see what happens. Because either way it's going to be great and it's going to give me that information to either then have a different conversation, which is, "Hey, I'm having this really great conversation. I don't feel like you're so open to hearing it. Please talk about that." [TYLER] This is a one way deal. Let's make it two way. [VAL] Yes, exactly. We need people that are coachable. That's a huge part of management. [TYLER] So you broke down, without calling it the name of your book, Chief Inspiration Officer, and it's this blend of the encouraging cheerleader, having high standards, this intentional passivity. As you created that model, how much, obviously you've described that was a model that you wish that you had been told about, but then you created over time. One of the things that I picked up in your book, and I love this because it's, so I guess can connected to who I am as a person. It's really part of this entire podcast. It's an entire part of the Impact Driven Leader community, it is empathy. And really having that empathy, I would love for you to define in your words and Val's words, what is empathy? [VAL] Empathy to me is having enough care and compassion to want to see the person that is on your team be the best version of themselves. [TYLER] I'm just writing that down, so enough care and compassion for the person on your team to be the best that they can. [VAL] Yep. Best version of themselves. [TYLER] I get that right, best version of themselves. I'd love to ask people that, because I believe this, I believe humility and empathy are the two most commonly misunderstood words in our society and what leadership is. Yet they're imperative for healthy leadership; is to display healthy humility and have empathy. I'm going to share this for our conversation and for the listeners that they've heard this before. To me, empathy is putting your arm around someone and walking with them. I believe when you do that, you actually fulfill exactly what you said. You have enough care and compassion that you're walking together because you're going somewhere together to where, you're on that path for a reason. I think that's important because as you describe in this, the Chief Inspiration Officer, having the blend of high standards and this encouraging cheerleader, but yet this intentional passivity is if you're walking with someone, you got your arms around them, you can't drag them. Yet you have to encourage them to take steps with you. Yet you have to also have the high standards of saying, "Hey, we're doing this together. So you can't leave me hanging here." I think that's so important in the role of a leader that no one is ever told, that's your job. Your job is not to produce. Your job is not dictate. Your job is not this or that. Your job is to be this inspiration, to be this encourager, to be this person with this warm heart. As you, as I saw what you wrote and what you've talked about here, man, that's when people just shine. [VAL] Yep. They want to, the subtitle is How to Lead the Team Everyone Wants to Be On because it's really like when people feel connected to you as their leader, they want to work for you. They want to be loyal. They want to be productive because they really feel like you get them, understand them, advocate for them and care. You have that care and compassion. Now there's one thing that kept coming up as you were talking, which I really like to distinguish is the difference between empathy and sympathy. Because I think a lot of leaders cross over to having too much sympathy. What I mean by that is someone's having a bad day or they lose a client or they get yelled at or whatever and the leader starts over apologizing or, "Oh my gosh, what can I do for you? I'm so sorry that happened." So we cross over from empathy, which is understanding and relating to somebody and imagining what it might feel like for them to starting to over indulge in the drama, the details of the story; so much that in a subconscious way, we might actually be keeping people stuck in that story or stuck with that problem. The other thing that could happen in sympathy is we become the hero for them. Like, okay, I'm going to take care of it, "I'll call the client. I'll get it off your back." We become that hero or as a leader. We want to be somewhat careful of that because it's not that we don't never want to step in and help because there's definitely times we need to do that for an employee. But if we're always stepping in, then we become the dumping ground for every single problem and that becomes very exhausting for the leader and doesn't empower the employee. So the distinguishing empathy versus sympathy is really big because I think people confuse it. [TYLER] I mean, that's why I believe it's one of the most misunderstood. It's like humility, in this idea that I almost need to discount myself. It's like, no, that isn't, yes. That doesn't help either because you end up losing confidence. You don't validate yourself and it's not having this arrogance. It's finding that middle ground. It's finding that spot where everything is what I term as healthy. It's healthy empathy. It's having healthy humility. I'd love for you, before we move on, I'd love for you to break down. You share in your book a couple different tools. We've talked a lot about why, but I'd love for you to go through the cave and how leaders end up in the cave, how to get out of the cave. I think it's a great acronym that you use, but it's also this idea of we, as leaders can end up putting ourselves in a cave and when we go there, we're not healthy to ourselves and we're not healthy to those on our team. I'd love for you to jump off and just describe that for us. [VAL] So the CAVE is an acronym and an analogy for what happens to us when we're under pressure and stress and metaphorically we want to go hide. Even in a CAVE we might still see light so we might still work, email, go to meetings. But the question is, are we as bright and surrounded by as much positivity as we possibly can be if we're in, metaphorically in this dark, spot, which is totally where I was early on. When you asked that question, what made the transition, I was like, well, I was stuck because I was feeling all the pressure. I was in my own little cave. I didn't realize it at the time. But the C, what keeps us in the CAVE is criticism. So when we start judging other people, "I don't like how they did this. They didn't talk to me this way. They're disrespectful. My boss is this, the company's that," like all these things that we say to try to justify our frustration. The A is assuming. A lot of times our present and our future is guided by how things were. So we're like, well, I tried to talk to Steve yesterday and he was a jerk. So what's the point? We're making a lot of assumptions and they stop us and keep us stuck. The V is for a victim mindset. We've all been there, where let's say somebody's insubordinate in a meeting and now in our mind whether we realize it or not, we're like, oh my gosh, am I even a good enough leader? Do I even know what I'm doing? Am I going to get fired, like all these little victimizing thoughts come in. Then E is enclosed pattern, which stands for these patterns that enclose us, because they become our default reactions to things like then we might become defensive or passive or avoidant or passive aggressive or whatever. We might stutter. These are the things that show up and keep us stuck from really being who we want to be. So I put it up pretty early on in the book because I felt like when I was coaching clients and they would say help me navigate through this really difficult conversation that I want to have with my boss. We start working on what to do and how to say things, but there are trying to do it from a place of frustration. I'm like, well, we got to get you out of the cave first. So if we can get you out of the cave, your conversation with your boss is going to be so much more impactful because you are different, you're showing up different. So that's what that's all about. [TYLER] I love it. I think when you can break down the CAVE, when you look at those four, I think those are really the barriers that a lot of people have to being a better leader. It's like, you get stuck in that. Then that becomes our barriers, it's some I've listed before and Jared shared recently, as it came to me. It's the barriers of leadership insecurity, insensitivity, inactivity, and this idea of being so intense. You can end up being in those situations. If you're overly critical, that's being intense, that's being too much for people. You're putting it on them as opposed to being respectful here. I love how you share it because when we can recognize those things going on or when we can recognize those actions in either people that are leading us or people that we're leading, we can say, "Time out, okay, let's get to the root of this. Let's break this down. Let's find out what's really happening." And coming back to that role of that Chief Inspiration Officer, as you listed and having that ability to cheerlead. Because in order to cheerlead, you got to be on the right track. You got to ask the questions. You got to probe. You got to find that connection. That's really what you get into. Then when you throw out, crave, as you mentioned earlier, is this, you were craving for it and then when you stop and realize I was craving it, well then how many other people are craving it as well? So I'd love for you to list off, and again, talk a little bit more about this, how to get out of the cave is really to show people and deliver people what they're craving. [VAL] So the CAVE, the first thing I want to make this distinction is that when we're in a cave, sometimes just recognizing that awareness alone is enough, but other times we do need to drop some of that criticism and really let it go. That's where that empathy comes in because we don't have to agree with somebody to shift out of the cave, but if we could just have an open mind to what their perspective is, what their victim mindset might be. I mean, a lot of times people are acting in a certain way and we're going to label them as a jerk, but it's just because their victim mindset's saying, if I don't talk loudest and if I don't show my frustration, no one will listen to me. Then I'm not going to be seen as smart enough. That's what's happening. So shifting out of the CAVE by having some empathy and maybe making some, yes, maybe we're assuming a little bit like what someone's victim mindset is, but it just helps us calm that reaction down. Once we're out of the cave, we can give them what they crave. So crave stands for connection. In all my, my research in looking at the various ways we can increase employee engagement, I was starting to see patterns and there wasn't just like one thing. So there's connection, like we said earlier. There's reliability. So is my leader going to do what they say? Are they going to show up in the way that they say it? If they say they'll go back to me tomorrow and they don't, it just diminishes some of that trust and the employees question whether what else do they have to second guess. A is appreciation. So vocalizing what you see, what you value in somebody, what you see that they're doing well, it's actually the number one motivator of employee engagement over money. So this isn't to say that money's not important. So one caveat I will say is when I'm talking about the CRAVE model, I'm assuming you're paying fairly and the compensation is good and at least equal to what industry standards is. But if you ask somebody, would you rather have a small bonus or would you rather be appreciated more at work, like 88% said appreciated more at work. So that's part of CRAVE. V is to feel that their work has meaning or is valuable. So no matter the role, no matter how customer facing it is, even if it's something really behind the scenes, there's a reason for it. Sometimes we have to reconnect people to that reason and then finally effective communication, which without it, there's just so many things that could go wrong and speculation that's made. So that's CRAVE. If you can, usually, leaders, I have a little self assessment I leaders through, but usually they can see like, wow, I'm really good in these two or three areas, but I need to work on these one or two things. So there's things we're doing well naturally, but if we can balance all five, we're onto something [TYLER] To me, as you list off those five, those are all great actions to display empathy. And healthy empathy is to show that to people, to connect with them, to meet communicate. One of the things that I believe, and as we're changing this guard, as I mentioned this earlier, the audience, which I'm really trying to speak to those people my age, the Gen-X and a little bit younger, older millennials that thrust into this world of leadership. Maybe it was like you were, but maybe it's leading from an older generation and now we're finding ourselves with a lot of millennials and younger generations who are like, all right, what motivates people. And I believe that there's this barrier to think that if you're being empathetic, if you're doing all those five things with CRAVE, and you're doing those well, that you can't be a good leader. What would you, as you've probably seen that, that's why you're talking about it, you experienced that yourself, what seems to be the biggest crux or what is it that, if I'm 42 and I come in and I'm leading this organization now, and I have maybe someone senior to me and they're in their sixties and their seventies. You're like, well, you can't lead that way. That won't work. I think 2021 and 2020 have thrown that out the window but yet what is the big area usually there that people have to bust through that you've seen? [VAL] Well, I think that a lot of people assume that other people know what they want. So as a leader, they are perplex why someone isn't doing something a certain way. Maybe at some point, like maybe it was listed in the job description. Maybe at some point they said it, but you have anticipatory communication. It's my new thing that I'm teaching, the concept of what must be going on through this employee's mind, where might they be disconnected and how can you anticipate that and communicate that ahead of time. It's almost like being in sales and uncovering the objections before they even tell you what the objections are. That leader, if you can do that as a leader, then your team starts to feel heard and understood and safe, and you bridge that gap and that disconnect gap. I think that's, that's the key and that's not always so easy for people because then that requires clarity on what you want. So we have to, we have to get clear on like, what it is that you're looking for. That goes into, I think I start talking about that in chapter six, seven; if you could describe your ideal employee, what would they look like? What are those attributes? And every opportunity is an opportunity to remind people towards those qualities that you're looking for. Every opportunity is like, let me give you an example. Let's say that what's really important to you is that when one of your employees is talking to the customer, it's done with a ton of empathy and kindness. Maybe that was never really stated anywhere, but you're just assuming that they would know that and now you're frustrated because you don't see that. Then you don't really say anything. So here's an opportunity. You see someone that did really well with the customer and you're in a team meeting and you're like, "Hey, I want to take a second and acknowledge Sharon, because she had a really difficult team meeting and she handled it with such grace. Sharon, can you share with the team what you did?" Then you say, guys, that really what I'm looking for moving forward, it's that clarity and infusing it consistently in your meetings, your one-on-ones, your onboarding. The more comfortable you get with that, the easier you're going to have with receiving the productivity you're looking for. [TYLER] I love it. To me, that is it, as I imagine that it comes to, instead of coloring in black and white, instead of painting in black and white, now, all of a sudden we're painting in color. It it's not X as a nose. It is this dynamic relationship. When we understand that every opportunity to lead or in sales, whatever, is dynamic. We'll then seriously, we start asking questions, which is that communication. It's connection. It's all of those things that you discuss. I believe where I see the difference from a generation and where we're thrust into now, and so many people experienced this in 2020, in 2021 is if you cared more about what was going on outside of your office, all of a sudden the people that worked in your office cared a lot more about what was going on in that office. I saw that played out, and I think that's such a magical lesson for people. You hear the stories of organizations that are like, well, we're going to force people back into the office. I'm like, well, what if that's not right for that family? What if that's not right for that person? To me, that's a toxic form of leadership that doesn't help our world. I believe what you've written and what you're sharing and what you're going through is really a model of leadership that we should embrace because it's more people-centric. To me, when we can focus there, that's when we can go back and we can show enough care and compassion and help others be the best version of themselves, which I absolutely love. It's what I want to, doesn't want to see others do. [VAL] That's great. Well, you can hear that in your voice. You connect so much with the people part of leadership. I do, I feel like some people get so bogged down into systems and metrics and policy that they lose sight of the human being that we all are and what our needs are; emotional needs and our physical needs and how do we connect with that more? I was just thinking this woman, she was an instructional designer. She worked for a university and they wanted her to come back to work, but she had an ailing parent. So she was worried about the exposure obviously. They said, well, if you don't come back by X date, you don't have a job. So she went to social media and she said, you're never going to believe this, but I don't have a job. She was good at her job and loved her job. I was like, that is so unfortunate because now they're going to have to hire someone, train them, all that attrition and that cost of retraining somebody and finding and recruiting. It's like two and a half times that employee's salary. I think that's the latest statistic. [TYLER] I don't even think that touches it. Because let's play that out. I love you sharing that. This is what the fun, this to me is the fun of the podcast when we start having this conversation. It wasn't the cost of replacing that employee. It was all of the psychological trust that was now lost and that entire organization, because if somebody works with this lady, say all of a sudden that was you and we're friends and I like you, Val, I like working with Val, and all of a sudden, Val, I understand your mom. She's not well. You need to take care of her. The boss, or both of our boss says, "Hey, sorry, you either show up or you don't have a job." I'm thinking, okay, what position does that put me in? All of a sudden, instead of thinking, I'm loyal and I would run through a wall because this person believes in me and they care about me and they make me feel safe, instead I start thinking, all right, my days are numbered. I have to start looking for something else because obviously they don't care about me. And I think that going back on the question I asked earlier, I think that's the big difference; is maybe the leader in the eighties, nineties, and two thousands, there was so many employees they could say, "Hey, Val, don't show up. I'll find somebody else. It's okay. There's plenty of qualified people." I don't believe that in 2022. There's trying to find the right people that fit. There isn't that, "Hey, you walk out the door. I got six people that'll walk in and take your place that are probably better than you," which is a mentality. That's not the case at all. That's not a way to treat people, but what have you seen that either affirms that or is something different? [VAL] I think that, and I love that you're seeing it too so holistically because it is so true because if I was friends with the person who got fired right now, I'm sitting here going, wait, they clearly don't care about her. What does that mean for me? Now I'm going to work in the guarded way, maybe with one foot in, one foot out, which is, so it's the whole ripple effect. We could dissect that all day long, but I think with the whole great resignation, and especially with more jobs being virtual, people have more choice. I mean, I can get a job now in Florida or Tennessee or wherever where I'm not living. So I now can say, wait, I don't have to put up with the bad boss or the toxic culture. I'm going to be more inclined to look elsewhere. So I think that's what's happening. I think in a way, the new environment has given people the opportunity to reflect on what's important and what they're willing to put up with and recognizing now there's more choices available. I think that's what we're seeing. I think companies have to get really smart and realize it is about the people. [TYLER] Again, I think that's your great opportunity, is to help people there. That's what my passion and desire, to help people be better leaders, to figure out how to be that bridge in our workplace today because people deserve it and people deserve it. That's how you can help people accomplish the most that they can. The last thing here before we finish up, I'd love to know this, because you end the book talking about end energy vampires. I know there's got to be a little bit of, you read some John Gordon there but I would love to know through this process and I mean going back to your amazingly reflectiveness where you took and you analyzed, what would I want, who have been your inspirations in leadership? [VAL] Wow. I look to sports coaches a lot. Even my, yes, I can study like Popovich who really thinks about loving and leading, that's his whole philosophy. For those who don't know Antonio, the San Antonio Spurs, basketball. He was hard on his players, but he was also like, they were his family. So he balanced that tough love with that immense amount of care. So I'm always fascinated to watch, especially with my kids, sports coaches, who is building their team up? Who's yelling at the kids? Who's bringing people together for team building events to get them laughing and joking so when they're out on the field, they're playing really well together? That's who I'm consistently inspired by when I think about that question and also learning from when I look at leaders. Like what not to do. I see the discouragement my kids have when they come home from a football practice or whatever sport they're in. They're yelled at the entire time. Nobody wants that. Or what are you doing? What are you thinking? So any anyone who's ever watched that or been in a sport remember that. And you're just beat up and then you feel like you can't even make a mistake. Because I think part of growth is watching people make mistakes, and my dog agrees. [TYLER] I mean it's yes, there's so much to that. I believe this, the greatest model of leadership that we get to study every day is in sports, whether it's through our kids, whether it's through professionally. And what amazes me and I've talked to many friends about, this is so many leaders, so many coaches that try to model Bobby Knight as their figure and they model that, that aggressiveness, the screaming, the chair throwing, they're modeling that. Yet to me, the coach of all coaches who accomplished more than Bobby did in 10 lifetimes is John Wooden. Just a slightly previous era that was never anything like that. His entire epitome was I will do this to make better people. If I make better people, we're going to end up have a pretty good basketball team. I think of that as, why do we have this generation? Again, this is our generation. I know we're similar in age, our generation, that looked as Bobby Knight as the example, yet we totally skipped as a society that John Wooden style that was so much better. If you think of Popovich, he's way more like Wooden than he is Bobby Knight yet he's had that success. He's had that tenure. You look at so many examples, it amazes me that our society just has not focused in the right spot. I think you're writing about the right focus in my opinion. It's something I'm passionate about. [VAL] I so appreciate that. I think that there is room for improvement in so many different companies and small businesses. I'm so happy to be part of that journey. I can tell you are too. It's just, and when you asked me earlier, what's your definition of empathy, it's helping people be the best version of themselves, which is, when we look at these sports coaches, that's what they're doing. They're constantly seeing the potential in somebody, and they're not afraid to say you're so great at this, but I can see that you could be more here whether that's with teamwork or skill or whatever. It doesn't matter. They're not afraid, which goes back to that courage you talked about having earlier. So we're wrapping it up with that, with basketball coaches. [TYLER] I love it. Thank you so much, Val. I appreciate it. Obviously the book, Chief Inspiration Officer, thank you for writing that, sharing all of your thoughts. Please go buy that book wherever you can find it. If people want to connect more with you, Val, where can they learn more about you? [VAL] My website, executive-muse.com, M-U-S-E. On there I give lots of things for free. I have a free quiz and then I have a free chapter of the book, so there's definitely resources. They can check that all out there. [TYLER] Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much, Val. Thank you for pouring in time to the world today and until next time. [VAL] Sounds good. Thanks, Tyler. [TYLER] Really, as I was reading Val's book, Chief Inspiration Officer, this idea of CRAVE, it's a great way for people that are maybe looking at how do I put empathy into action? As I've shared from other guests in the past, as they define empathy, as we talk about that here in this conversation too. It's, it's really showing connection, being reliable, being appreciative, understanding value, and having effective communication that we can display empathy towards others. I realized you can't be empathetic to someone if you're not connected, if you're not reliable, if they can't understand the appreciation. If you don't have value for them and if you're not willing to communicate, there's no empathy. It's really broken in a lot of leadership ways. I think what's valuable, that Val shares. To me, it is empathy. It is really the biggest tool that we can find to understand, to be a leader that makes a tremendous difference in the world. That's my desire. My hope is to help other leaders get healthy too. Because I had to get past my insecurities and understand how to be more empathetic, not yell, not be crazy, not be overly passionate, but to display empathy. That Val has so well put together through the tool of CRAVE. It's be connected, be reliable, appreciative, show value, and communicate effectively. I think there's a great tools to move on through and buy. I hope you got value on out of that. If you got value out of this episode today, I ask you to give a rating and review wherever you're listening to it. I'd love to know how I'm doing as a host, how the guests are doing, so I can share that feedback with them, what impact it made in your life. As well as always, you can always go to the impactdrivenleader.com. Check out the community, the book club that we have. I'd love for you to be a part of that. Read books like Val's book, Chief Inspiration Officer with others where you can learn with them together. Thank you for being here as an audience member. Until next time have a good one.