IDL53 Season 2: Impact Players: Transform Your Team, with Liz Wiseman
What does true impact mean in business? Does your team have a direction to guide the passion? Do you have multipliers and impact players in your team?
Today Tyler is joined by the writer and researcher, Liz Wiseman. She’s the author of Multipliers, and Rookie Smarts - one of Tyler’s favorites. Her latest book, Impact Players, is already a favorite here on the podcast because we are all about Impact Leaders! After reading through the first couple of chapters, Tyler couldn’t wait to have Liz on as a guest, because her perspective on leadership is so unique. Who makes an impact, how do they make an impact, and why is making an impact so important? Liz has the answer; some people are contributors, others are Impact Players.
Meet Liz Wiseman
Liz Wiseman is a researcher and executive advisor who teaches leadership to executives around the world.
She is the CEO of the Wiseman Group, a leadership research and development firm headquartered in Silicon Valley, California. Some of her recent clients include: Apple, AT&T, Disney, Facebook, and Google.
Liz has conducted significant research in the field of leadership and collective intelligence and writes for Harvard Business Review, Fortune, and a variety of other business and leadership journals.
She is also the author of multiple books, including New York Times bestseller Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter, and Wall Street Journal bestseller Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact.
Visit the Wiseman Group Website and connect with Liz on Twitter and LinkedIn.
IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
Impact (7:18)
Empathy and mindset of impact players (14:32)
Move in the right direction (25:20)
The secure leader (30:10)
Impact
You can create value and meaning as impact in:
The business
The culture
The staff and employees
Being driven to make a valuable impact is to be more than a contributor.
Empathy and mindset of impact players
Multipliers in business transform contributors to impact players which is what ultimately transforms the business and the culture.
Impact players bring enormous capability to themselves and others because:
They are proactive
They are assertive
They see a need and take charge
Impact players look for what it is that their clients and staff are trying to accomplish and focus their energies and attention on helping them to make that happen.
This is where their empathy and mindset orientation make them true impact players. They observe and seek value because you cannot make an impact unless you are working with something that people value.
Move in the right direction
Passion is important in completing work that is meaningful to you. However, passion can be dangerous if it is misguided.
The organization and team need to be clear on which direction it is heading in so that people can align their passions in the same direction and work together.
Otherwise, people fall short, go on tangents, and the team ends up splitting in different directions because people are not communicating, nor are they putting their passions together for the sake of meaning-making and the success of the team.
The secure leader
Work with the secure genius and the secure leader, because they know that they are capable and they are more interested in using their skills for the better instead of showing them off.
Practice empathy as an employee with your leaders and bosses. Upward empathy is your ticket to creating deep and meaningful relationships that are peer-based with your bosses.
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
BOOK | Liz Wiseman and Greg McKeown – Multipliers: How the Best Leaders Make Everyone Smarter
BOOK | Liz Wiseman – Rookie Smarts: Why Learning Beats Knowing in the New Game of Work
BOOK | Liz Wiseman – Impact Players: How to Take the Lead, Play Bigger, and Multiply Your Impact
BOOK | John Maxwell – Change Your World: How Anyone, Anywhere Can Make a Difference
Visit the Wiseman Group Website and connect with Liz on Twitter and LinkedIn
The Impact Driven Leader YouTube Channel
Join the Impact Driven Leader Community
Connect with Tyler on Instagram and LinkedIn
Email Tyler: tyler@tylerdickerhoof.com
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.
The ability of a multiplier [is to] help someone else move from a contributor to an impact player and that's what transforms all organizations.
Liz Wiseman
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]
Welcome to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. So glad you're here. So thankful that you're listening in. Whether this is your first episode or you've listened to a few glad you're here. Glad joining in. Can't wait for you to listen to this conversation today with the great author, Liz Wiseman. She's the author of Multipliers, Rookie Smarts, one of my favorite books and the latest book Impact Players. When I first saw this book, I knew, all right, this has got to be a good one. One, this is the Impact Driven Leader podcast. I'm all about making impact. As I got through the first couple chapters, I'm like, oh, I have to get her as a guest.
Liz, so wonderfully accepted that invitation. I'm excited for you to hear this conversation and I'm excited for you to hear it because it's just a different bent on leadership in this idea of who makes an impact. Why do they make an impact? Why is making an impact important? As I went through this, preparing for this conversation, as I had this conversation with Liz one, I was struck by her humility, her kindness, her willingness to have an amazing conversation, but as well, really, this idea of the difference between people that are in, she describes in her book, people that are just contributors as opposed to impact players.
My hope, my desire as you're listening into this podcast, or hopefully a lot of others is that you're starting to see that this idea of making impact really is having the idea of less about doing for me, but how can I make a difference for others? I got a message this morning from a listener, and this is a family friend, and you know what's so funny to me is I record these podcasts, I have these conversations, I go through the process, I never know who listens. I love to see the comments. I love to see the reviews, all those things, and this is the comment that this lady shared with me.
She goes, "I love your podcast today. I haven't finished it yet, but so good. Proud of you. Thanks for inspiring all of us." It's a note like that that makes me think, and it's just a little crumb along the way. I have no idea who listen to these podcasts. I'll be completely honest and transparent, I do not know how many listen to this podcast. Guess I've never looked. It could be one listener. It could be a hundred thousand listeners. I have no idea it. Isn't why I do it. It's the reason why I do it, is to have the great conversations like I did today with Liz and to get notes like this from friends that just happen to get a little bit of value. That's why I'm here today and my thrive is to make an impact. I hope that I'm being an impact player and I thank you again for listening. Sit back, get ready. Wherever you're at take notes. It's an amazing conversation with an amazing author, the great Liz Wiseman.
[TYLER]
Well, Liz, good morning. Thank you so much for joining me.
[LIZ WISEMAN]
Oh, this is going to be a fun conversation. Thank you for inviting me, Tyler.
[TYLER]
I'm super excited. As we were just getting to know each other, chatting beforehand, we're here to talk about your notebook Impact Players. I don't want to take anything away from that. If there's impact in the title, as this is the Impact Driven Leader podcast, I'm all about that. There's a couple statements you make I'm like, "Did she literally read what goes on in my mind or my wife's mind when she wrote this because it's so on point?" But I shared with you where I first learned about Liz Weisman was in a book that was shared with me several years ago called Rookie Smarts. I absolutely loved the book for the place where I was at, because it gave credence to this idea of coming in and asking questions to learn more instead of thinking, oh, this is the way it's always been done. So that's how I got to know Liz and I'm so excited to talk to you about your new book and everything you're doing with that.
[LIZ]
Well, I'm excited that you read Rookie Smarts. I like to think of rookie smarts as sort of the smarter, less popular sibling to multipliers. That I think it's a fun, but not as well known as maybe Multipliers is. So I'm always delighted when people have found it.
[TYLER]
I mean, not to get too deep into it, but again, as I shared there just a couple minutes ago, I think the idea of we, and this comes out in Impact Players, I absolutely see it as an impact player is the ability need to have someone to have those attributes of a rookie. As you talk about in Rookie Smarts is it's the person that asks questions that doesn't know they shouldn't ask them, but they're just trying to know more and to inquire deeper and as we'll get into Impact Players. And maybe it's something that I enjoyed about Impact Players in the book, the idea of, this idea of making an impact is understanding that, wait a second, this isn't the way that it really, something's not right here. I need to investigate deeper so I can actually make a difference as opposed to just contributing. That's how I relate the two. I don't know if that makes sense.
[LIZ]
Well, and I think that, I'm just realizing this for the first time is I think one of the common themes across my work is about working mindfully.
[TYLER]
Oh, okay.
[LIZ]
It's like, Multipliers is about being very aware of your effect, your impact on the people you lead and that you can either have a multiplying or diminishing impact. Most of the diminishing is done accidentally, unaware, like, oh, I thought they wanted my help. I didn't realize I was smothering them. Oh, I thought I was cheerleading them, but I didn't realize that I made it really difficult for them to make mistakes. Rookie Smarts is about being very mindful when you are new to something and being like, wow, why do we do this? What do I need to, what does success look like? It's that advantage that comes not from just having fresh eyes, but having a mindful intentional way of contributing. And I think the Impact Player, like framework and message, I think really highlights this as well. It's like, what happens when you come in and don't just do your job, you are looking at what's important here? Where can I add value? What needs to be done?
[TYLER]
Yes.
[LIZ]
How can I do this differently? How can I have impact and not just get stuck going through the motions? It takes a very mindful approach, not mindful as in, Hmm, mindful. Like I've never meditated a day of my life. This is my personal hell, is meditating all day long, but it's being aware, mindful as in the way you would cross the busy intersection.
[TYLER]
Yes. I think another term that's pretty popular is intentional, to be intentional about it. I'd love to do this as we start into this conversation, how do you define impact? Someone's listening and they're like, okay, what is an impact driven leader? I have a definition. I'd love to know your specific definition to what is impact.
[LIZ]
Well, let's start on the physical side. An impact is to make a dent in something, to change the surface of something to change the constitution of something. I've got a friend here who's got a wonderful little slogan up on my wall about making a dent in the universe. So it's to change something, but lots of people make an impact, but I think, I've been trying to look at what does it mean to make a positive impact on something, to do something of significance, to do something that really matters, to do something of extraordinary value. That's really how I define impact. It could be an impact on the business. It could be an impact on the culture, on the team. It could be an impact on the person. Tyler, you and I were to about people who have made deep impacts on us, like people who have dented me.
[TYLER]
I think to me, what's exciting about that, in my ideology, being driven to make an impact, to be driven to make an impact is not being a contributor. That's what I loved about this, the mindset of the impact player that you have written about and talked about so much in that book is there's a difference between I'm just going to lead. We talk about multipliers, we talk about this is leadership. It's like, oh, I'm going to lead. There's a part in the very introduction of your book and I'm going to read it. I know this may go cringe or something. Some people don't like to hear what they've written, but to me, it encapsulated this, "by working with the impact player mindset, you will be a natural for the roles of leading and making a difference."
I'm paraphrasing there, "You will already be seen as a leader and you will be practiced in leading through influence and collaborating in a way that multiplies, not diminishes the capability of those that you work with." To me, I look at it as a contributor is one plus one. I bring, I contribute. An impact player is a multiplier that goes one plus one equals four. That's what I, and community that I host, this Impact Driven Leader community is talking about. It's getting around the table with people and saying, how can we add to each other one plus one, but equal four? To me, it's this idea of everything you've said as an impact player and having that mindset. It's not about me, but it's, how can I contribute, but maximize the performance of others?
[LIZ]
Sometimes it's to do the things other people don't think of. You mentioned getting around the table and contributing. Contributing is good. Like if someone looks at this book and goes, oh, impact player good, contributor, bad has maybe missed what I've tried to make as a point. This is not comparing the good guys and the bad guys. This is about looking at the difference between those who are doing well and those who are making a significant difference in the world and in the organization.
Okay, so you mentioned table and food. Like a contributor is someone who brings something to the potluck. They have contributed. I brought cookies, this person brought bread, the impact player is the one who says we need a community dinner. Let's gather and get together. That's the impact player. So contributing is good. But the impact player is not just bringing something to the team. They're the ones that are making things happen.
[TYLER]
So one of the words that kept hitting me and as I read this and reread it and really dove into this book is to me, and again, an impact player is a collaborator that not only collaborates, but helps everyone else collaborate to their maximum potential. It really, to me, there's a part of it, is being a contributor I'm adding but when I collaborate, I make sure that I recognize what you're great at. I say, well, if I can bring what I'm good at, and I can recognize what you're great at and then all of a sudden we can combine those then all of a sudden everything around us just elevates..
You often talk in the book about football players. I love it because I think the ability to look at football, particular, I love football is that you can see a player that maybe doesn't have, it's not the Tom Brady, but it's someone else on the roster that you know are making a tremendous impact and the team would be nothing without them. Not take anything away from Tom, but yet there's another guy on the team that doesn't maybe show up that makes a tremendous, because of everything that they're doing. To me, I love to see that because it's not about them.
[LIZ]
Well, yes. They often become role models on the team. They become cultural icons, sort of paragons of what we want from team members. They're the people who raise a level of play on the team. It might just be because, well if we've got this person, if we've got Tyler on our team, we're going to win. So I'm going to put my full effort in, because we got this impact player. It could be the person who just helps bring out the best, which is okay, guys let's run that play one more time. I know coach said we were done for the day, but come on, let's get that. It's like someone who's helping everyone just perform at their best.
[TYLER]
It's someone, I think as we're talking about this and we're going through this and understanding this ideology, I think a great challenge is for leaders to say, "Hey, am I making an impact? Let's check myself there." But then am I empowering others, whether they're my peers, whether my superiors, whether those that I lead to make an impact, to go above and beyond that contribution. Not saying it's a must or it requires more but to say, am I recognizing the barrier between them making an impact from just a contribution? I think one of the great skills, and I think this is a multiplier is when you're able to say, hey, Liz, and a recent guest that I had, Anne Hyatt, we talked about this and I said, why wouldn't you want to be in a situation as a leader where you go to someone and say, "Hey, Liz, I recognize you're amazing. Maybe you don't realize it, but when you do this, everyone else notices and everyone else just erases their game a little bit." To me, that that is the ability of a multiplier to help someone else move from a contributor to an impact player and that's what transforms all organizations.
[LIZ]
You said that so well. I have nothing to add. You said it so well.
[TYLER]
Because I read a really good book. I read a really good book that laid it all out that helped me understand. I want to ask you this though, if you had to, we talk about collaborator, so an impact maker is a collaborator. Where do you see how empathy fits into the mindset and I guess the modus operandi of Impact Players?
[LIZ]
It's about where their orientation is. I think it's true for the best leaders. I think it's true for the best contributors and the impact player, is they bring enormous capability themselves. And they're very aware of themselves and the contribution they can make. Like you read the book and you see it, you're like, they're almost borderline annoying. There's so proactive, assertive, take charge. So they're aware of self, they use self, but they're not, they don't stop there. Their orientation is really around others and the people that they serve. So they're not just like, "Hey, here's what I want to do." What is it that my client is really trying to accomplish?
Let's say they're in a coaching role. Like, Hey, I'm all about empowering people. I want people to use their gifts. Maybe that's not where the other person is. What is it that they need and how can I take what I have in my capability and help them with what they need? Okay, I know what I want to do, but what's important to my boss? What is she trying to get done? How do I help her move her agenda forward? So they're operating with this upward and outward empathy. We often think of empathy as like a downward phenomenon, which is we empathize with people who are, I mean, I've been trying to get managers to empathize with what's going on with people around them. But you ---
[TYLER]
You and I both
[LIZ]
it's empathizing with people who are down on their luck, people who are struggling, people who are hurting, who are wounded, and we're trying to have empathy for their challenge. But we don't have to think about having empathy for the people above us in organizations, the people that we serve. We're like empathy with the boss, the president, the CEO, are you kidding? They're the ones that need empathy. They get paid a lot of money. They have a lot of power. Why should I be empathetic with them? But it's, like the impact player starts with this upward empathy and understanding what's important. What are they trying to do? What does this look like from their perspective? What is making their job hard right now?
I wonder if maybe what's making their job hard is me or all of us. Maybe their parents are grumpy because the kids are making them grumpy. It stops shy of sympathizing with your captor. But it's understanding what the world looks like through another perspective and it is so powerful because we cannot create value unless we understand first, what is valued by those we work for. Their length on value may be very different than our own.
[TYLER]
So I'm going to jump in because we talked about this, you have a mutual friend, John Maxwell, and we were talking about him earlier. This is to that value point, something that I've learned from John. I've seen John get tremendously emotional and it's only been in the last, a year or so. With his book Change the World came out and he understood the extent that values have on communities, on organizations, on all levels of leadership. One of the things that I recognize through my own practice of it, just by having a conversation about values, you all of a sudden create this common ground that now all of a sudden that's when it allows for leadership to impart.
So if we're talking about that corporate executive, I'm a mid-level manager, whatever it may be, I'm a sales manager, it doesn't matter. I decide from a values point of view, I have a conversation with the CEO and all of a sudden I recognize that he has the same value for integrity and hard work and caring about others and then all of a sudden, when I see him doing something out of that, then all of a sudden I say, wait a second, is that a indictment on his values? Or is there something else going on that I need to look deeper for? I think the moment that we start to have that conversation about values, then all of a sudden we can appreciate each other as opposed to when we don't have that conversation, then we're clueless. As you just laid that out, I think it's probably got to be imperative. If I'm leading someone for them to make an impact, that we have a values conversation and understanding, and at the same point, if I want make an impact, I need to really align and appreciate the values of those around me.
[LIZ]
It's like, I love this idea where you get these click ins, like, wow, that person shares my value and it allows us to collaborate better. One of the things I learned in this research was how few manage actually communicate what they value. I'm going to say that different than my values because I'm saying, well, I might value integrity. I might value family. I might value achievement, whatever, but, so the essence of the research was that I interviewed 170 managers in nine different organizations and I'm asking them to identify someone who fit this description of an ordinary contributor, like a rock solid contributor, not like a barely getting it done versus an impact player.
I did all the things I needed to for the research and got mindsets and mental frames and value assessments for each of these two different types of people. But then I asked sort of a bonus question. Whenever I do research, I do, here's the things I have to do to get my job done. Then I throw like a little extra in like dessert for me. It's just really for me and because I'm interested in it. I asked 170 managers, tell me about what people do that you love that makes your job delightful, that makes it so rewarding to be a manager and to lead people. So it was there. Here's what I love list.
Then next was, I want you to tell me what people on your team do that drive you crazy, that you hate. People are like, no, I don't have anything. I'm like, I think you do. They're like, well, maybe one. I mean, there's one guy who wrote down 20 things. Then when we got to the end of the interview, this is what I heard so often, two observations, one would be when I described that impact player I knew right away who it was, but it wasn't until we talked it out that I really came to understand what it is they do differently. They know there's a certain Genesis Aqua. There's a thing about them that's hard to describe. They just get it. They're the person I turn to ion clutch moment. I just know if I hand the ball to them, they're going to get it across the finish line. Then they're like, maybe I should tell everybody else about those things.
Then the second thing I heard from so many of these managers was after they went through, they're like, here's what drives me crazy but here's what makes my job easy and delightful. Here's what builds credibility in my eyes. I'm like, have you shared that with anyone on your team? No. Most of them haven't. So these are the, and I'm one of these, which is like, I'll go and have pillow talk with my husband about this person's doing this. It's driving me crazy. They're forwarding me all these emails, but yet they never summarize the essential point so I have to ...
Then I have to ask myself, have I ever told people that what I really appreciate is that when people provide an executive summary, when they send me long mails? Well, maybe I've never told anyone that. Well, surely they can tell because I'm agitated. Well, maybe not. Certainly not in today's remote world. So part of it is the impact players are assessing out what is valued here? What is valued by this person? How do I create value? How do I add value? Because you can't make an impact unless it's something people value, otherwise, you get these deflection shields for your work.
And if I could shout on the rooftops to managers is let people know what's valued, let people know what's important, let people know what's important now because most people want to make an impact. They want to make a difference. We crave impact work. We're exhilarating when we are doing work that matters. Ours don't matter, but we're not having an impact when we keep trying and it keeps bouncing off the deflection shields. Even a short work week is exhausting.
[TYLER]
To me, an impact, to make an impact and to be an impact player is to find work that's fulfilling. I believe until we find that we could be in a state of frustration and confusion and it is this idea of we're frustrated. We're confused. We find fulfillment again. I believe, to take what you're saying is impact player goes through that cycle really fast. They know it's a cycle. They know what happens. To me, it's this cycle, the fulfillment, confusion, frustration. We're going to have that from one spot to another. There's going to be things that come that are frustrating.
Well, you just talked about frustration but it's like, how fast do I process through that to get past that confusion, frustration to where I can be fulfilled? I would imagine if you're talking about conversation you're having with your husband, it's like, ah, this frustrates. But then you have someone that does it and you're like, oh, why did they do it? What can I do to help make sure that everyone else gives me that executive summary? It's, "Oh my goodness. Thank you so much Gen for putting together this executive summary. I love how you do that. That just made it so simple for me." When you celebrate that, she only does that more impactfully, but then others, like, oh, that's what Liz wanted? I had no idea. I was trying to figure out what worked. I think that's the curiosity that a lot of impact players tend to have. As you --- go ahead
[LIZ]
They're paying attention. It's that mindfulness and this intentionality. And here's the beauty of it. You get to fulfilling work faster. There's this big movement, I don't know how many years it's been going on, at least a couple decades, follow your passion, find your passion, work where your passion, I think this has been terrible, terrible advice. Here's why, and I'm not saying people shouldn't do work they're passionate about, but for a select few, this works great because they know where they're passionate. They know where they have a passion and they know how to channel it to a productive, impactful place.
Other people are like, okay, this is what I'm passionate about and they go guns blazing toward it, but it's not the work of the organization. Nobody else cares about it. It's like the team is running. These are people who score an own goal. The team was headed in this direction and yes, you just passionately ran and score a goal in the opponent box. We are going this way, but you are passionately moving in a different direction.
[TYLER]
I feel like that's a Ted Lasso episode right there.
[LIZ]
Totally, totally. I have someone who's spots the multiplier diminisher moments in 10 lasso. They're like, that's funny. I'm pretty sure they've woven those in. But that is anti value because not only is someone not channeling their passion towards what's important to the team. You're having to keep pulling them back like, okay, that's great. We love that. You love that. Can we talk about what we are trying to do? It just drags on people. Then there's the other people who are like I don't know what I'm passionate about, but everybody else seems to know what they're passionate about. So what's wrong with me? They go through life with this passion deficiency complex. That's not a real term. I just made that.
[TYLER]
It makes sense to me.
[LIZ]
It's like I need to find my passion. They're like off, conservating over their passion when it's like, I'll tell you how to find your passion. Figure out what's important to the group you're in and go work on that passionately and you will find a passion, like, well, maybe finding many passions, like not the passion.
[TYLER]
I believe if you follow that pattern, I believe it ends up like a river and it'll wind and then all of a sudden you open up into this Delta and you're like, how did I ever get here? Well, the river started way up the mountain and just wove its way down, but ultimately got there because the path at least receded. So as I'm imagining that, as I'm painting this picture in my mind of, if we follow that path, and there's going to be hard spots and when a river hits a hard spot, what does it do? It makes a turn. It makes a slight adjustment. It keeps flowing. And I believe the moment that, getting back to this passion deficiency complex is when people, I really like that, I think you need to coin that for your next book or some book or whatever. There's a place for it.
[LIZ]
Tyler, you and I just did this.
[TYLER]
Yes, it's good. Is the fact that when people just say, oh, I'm not passionate, I'm done, I walk away, you're like, no, it doesn't work like that. It's like if, I forget who ---
[LIZ]
In some ways, Tyler it's like finding your passion is not an epiphany moment where you're like, da, da, this is what I'm passionate about. It's, we're finding our passion every day. It's like, oh, wow, that's interesting. I'm good at that. I made a difference. I feel passionate about this work. Think of it in terms of a plurality and a continuity. I think it's a useful concept, but I just think it winds up people who are unaware and they're misguided, and then it creates a whole set of insecurities with others.
[TYLER]
Let's hinge on that word. To me, I believe one of our, the biggest barriers for individuals to be an impact leader, impact driven leader or an impact player is insecurity. To me, if I look at a word that describes an impact player, someone making an impact, it's someone that's secure. It really, they found this self-awareness of security and understand hey, this is where I can make a difference. I believe as a leader, the more that we can come to grips with our insecurities and understand how they're barriers and as well, we can help others become secure in those areas that's how they're going to more often make an impact.
[LIZ]
Yes, it's like secure and self. I know in my work with multipliers and diminishers sometimes people interpret that as like, oh no, you don't want to work for the genius. You want to work for the genius maker, not the genius. I'm like, no. Actually, I'm really okay working for a genius. I've been able to work with some genius bosses, but I want to work with the secure genius. I want to work with the person who's super smart, super talented. I'm talented, I'm capable, I'm smart, and I'm over it so that every day at work, I don't have to be some attempt to prove I'm smart or or weld up in insecurity, afraid to raise my hand and say I'll take the lead on that. I know I'm not the boss, but I'll be a boss of this. I want to work with people who are over themselves so that they can get onto the work of the team and do work that is meaningful and impactful.
[TYLER]
I think in order to be an impact player and in order to have impact players in your organization, you have to be that secure, humble person, because every one of us has some type of genius. Whatever that is, we can say it is what it is, fine, but how can we add together? Go ahead.
[LIZ]
And for some people security comes easily. They're just sort of born okay in their skin. I probably was blessed with this at birth, which is, I've just always been okay, with who I am. In some ways, I'm not afraid to make a fool of myself. I'm not afraid of the rejection. Somehow I'm like, and I think it's because I was born with a sense of humor. That to me is my superpower, is doesn't matter what terrible thing happen. People are always, well, what if something like that happened? I'm, well, then that would just be a fun story. I'd be laughing myself for decades if that happened. So bring it on.
But for people who don't have that sense of security or I'm okay making full of myself, it's just put it out on the table. I find that we are at our best when we just lay out our insecurities, like, oh, I'm really nervous meeting you. I'm going to probably be stemming in the first five minutes of the meeting. You put that out there and that person is going to be helping you not questioning you. It's like, I just think when we just put them out and then keep moving, it has the same sort of effect of actually being fairly secure.
[TYLER]
I had to come to grips with that in life. I believe that is one of our biggest barriers in all relationships and especially in leadership. To me, as I read this, as I went through it, as I really tried to find a word that would describe an impact player is yes, there's collaborator, but I think it it's so much they're secure and they can appreciate who they are and understand, well, this is where I can best contribute. I think they model that with empathy and to me, and this is the framework that I've come up with, empathy to me is putting your arm around someone and walking with them.
You talked about that earlier, being empathetic to your superior. In essence, if you're collaborating, if I'm supporting you, I need to be able to put my arm around you and walk with you, because that means that we're in this together. Does it mean that we're hand in hand. No, absolutely not, but when I'm contributing in that way, I'm making sure that I'm impacting you and it's not like, oh, you're dragging me. Or at the same point, I can't drag you. We're walking at that together and I think in this idea of being secure and how I can make an impact or being secure and how others can make an impact, then I'm not afraid of them over shining my abilities, because I'm afraid of where my place is in the team.
[LIZ]
Tyler, it's something really important what you just said, is this ability of we are walking together. Upward empathy, showing empathy for people who might be organizationally your superiors. What it allows you to do is not just sympathize with your captors. it's not about not questioning authority and just okay, whatever the boss says, I'm going to like align myself with the boss. Because there are some evil bosses out there. I mean, I study them. So I guarantee you, there are evil bosses out there. But what it allows you to do is to operate as a peer with them, because it's like, okay, now you're working with me. You're in my club, because you understand what I'm trying to do. You understand the pressures I'm under.
So join me in this work and then we can walk side by side. If you want to have a peer relationship with people who are really senior, people who are powerful, people who are really influential, that upward empathy is your ticket to do that. As you said that, I thought, yes, I think it's been the, for me personally, it's been the source of my peer relationships with my bosses. I've always felt treated like a peer. I've never felt treated like a subordinate. Like, no, we're just on the same team. So think about what is he trying to do? What is his challenge right now? How do I make that easier for him and the organization?
[TYLER]
It goes back to the football player, the offensive lineman who is not the notorious, but is not the face of the organization usually, but yet, if he doesn't do his job, the quarterback never does their job. If he's standing there and he's going to block, if he's in the huddle and he's like, what can I do to make sure he can do what he only he can do? There's so much of a peer point there even, well, age is different, compensation is different, actual responsibility is different but if we look at that, the team can't be successful, unless every person on the field plays their position at the best they can.
[LIZ]
It's a, oh, I'm sorry.
[TYLER]
No, no, go.
[LIZ]
Well, it's a recognition that you can be an impact player in any role in an organization. Some are on the stage, some are backstage, some are front office, and it's getting beyond the sense of, well, it's only the people who are the stars on the field and in the highly visible roles that can be Impact Players, because it's about doing work that really, really matters.
[TYLER]
Yes. To me, that's the great diamond in the rough, is I love to be able to see that. I love to be able to experience that. One of the things that I enjoy doing is coaching my son's soccer team and being involved in his club and seeing the player that makes the play before the play. The player that stole the ball that had a great defensive stand that made the pass that made the pass that made the next pass, that person was making an impact.
[LIZ]
You said something there. It's so, so important for every manager. This is a very important part because, so I watch a lot of sports, but it's not because I'm huge in sports. It's because I'm a mom and I have four kids. I'm mostly watching the coaching and the sidelines. That's what I tend to watch because I'm watching something totally different and then I hear your people cheering and I look up and I see that someone's done something good. Then you end up cheering the superstar, but to do what you just did, you have to be paying attention to the play and you have to be watching what's happening on the field. What did the defender do that allowed that pass in the mid fielder to get that ball and send it up to where that header from the winger happened? Managers have to be paying attention to the teamwork to be able to celebrate the assist.
[TYLER]
Yes.
[LIZ]
Not just, oh yes, I see the obvious things. Ding, we made a sale. Boom, beautiful product. It's like, what was the person doing before that fed them the customer data that allowed them to build that and to pay attention to everything that's happening on the field?
[TYLER]
Love that. I mean, that's something that I love to be able to admire. I see in our accounting and our recognition programs, whatever, in a lot of organizations that person often doesn't get recognized because they aren't the ones that made the big sale. They're the one that contributed along the way that clicked it over, that put it over the top, that said, oh, well we need to make this small tweak to our presentation and that's, what's going to make the difference in the sale happen. That person is pivotal. That person is making an impact.
I believe when we do that is leaders, man, everything gets healthier because one of the things that I'm passionate about is I believe that as the generation I'm in and hearing this gen X, millennial cusp is it's our job to be the bridge. That was another word that I really believed impact players are bridges. They're bridges to everyone else in the organization that collaborates. That bridge that makes things happen and if we can be healthier, if we can understand the concepts that you're talking about in all three your books and really this impact player, be an impact player, help others be Impact Players, we're creating healthier organizations.
[LIZ]
When you said bridge, it just reminded me of, it's an example in the book and it's a personal one for me. It's Jay Bonner Richie. So someone's got to read a little bit or skip right to it but he has this professor of mine and he was invited to be a visiting faculty at BYU where I went to school at the Jerusalem Center. He's out, he's coming home from days of meeting and he's driving through this village, this Palestinian village of Isaia, but he's driving in a car with Israeli plates and the local boys in the village start throwing stones at his car. They end up breaking the windows and he's very much in danger, throws it in reverse, ends up backing up a hill.
I was just there this summer. He was backing up a hill, went to the hospital and had 30 pieces of glass in his face and in his arm. A day after this, Jay Bonner Richie who is a master at managing ambiguity and perspective taking goes back to the village, all bands up. This time he takes a translator. He leaves his car at the border because this is sort of the, is really part of town and going into this Palestinian village and he asked the boys, why did you do this? He finds the mayor and says, "I'd like to talk to the boys."
These boys think they're in big trouble and he just says, "I want to know why." He just lets them teach him why they did this to him and his car. They said it was the Israeli plates. For them, they said, here's what that symbol means to us. It's a very different perspective than it would be from the Israeli perspective or the American perspective or European perspective, but he just soaked in their perspective. Then he goes about his way. They become friends. They visit him up at the center. Bonner goes on to conduct these workshops, these leadership workshops with Israelis and Palestinians. He ends up leaving and then maybe within a year he gets a call and it's someone from Yaser Arafat's cabinet, the leader of the Palestinian liberation or PLO. He's been summoned back to the middle east and to Tunisia, to PLO headquarters, to meet with Arafat.
When he gets taken through tunnels and blindfolded and everything and he meets Arafat, Arafat says I want to talk with you because you have a reputation as a bridge builder. You're someone who doesn't take sides. You're someone who can see both sides of things. Arafat had been given this opportunity to enter into peace talks with the Israeli prime minister. This is back in 1993, I believe. Arafat says to him there's, I don't know how many people were there on his cabinets, more than a dozen people on his cabinet. He said, "We've been given this opportunity, but more than half of my cabinet is vehemently opposed to the idea of peace with Israel. Could you come spend three days with us and help open their eyes to the possibility of peace?"
He did. And Arafat is then able to go and enter into what becomes the Oslo Peace Accord of '93. It was just like this idea that he was to build bridges and to build bridges, you have to understand both sides and then be that bridge, which is a service between two sides. To me, this is what an impact player does and is someone who makes a huge difference in the world. Now, obviously there are many, many people in parties that did work that made that piece agreement possible but it's empathy. It's seeing, it's understanding, it's getting out of yourself and not saying, oh, I want to tell them why they're wrong. Well, let me just understand what they see. What's life like for them. What's their lived experience?
[TYLER]
Our greatest opportunity, I believe today in leadership and society is to be a bridge that does not have pylons on each side, which limit who can go across. You need to think about that. Imagine you're at a bridge, you're somewhere and there's gates, or there's pylons that, it's only foot traffic or bicycle traffic. The more that that bridge is opened and it's built and structured to carry whatever across it, that's when that's going to happen. To me ,and I'm so glad you brought up that story, it was a note that I had, that is the epitome of saying, it's not about me, but I can make an impact, but I have to be willing to understand why. Going back to what you said earlier, the impact players find a way to understand what's really important and use that as a catalyst to make more, to go one plus one equals four.
Liz. Thank you so much for your time. We could continue on, I could have a, we could talk as long as we just spoke about that whole last little piece. So I'm going to leave that people wanting more. I thank you so much for your time. This has been an absolute treasure and joy.
[LIZ]
Well, Tyler, thank you. And thank you for building bridges and helping leaders to do the same because we need it right now.
[TYLER]
So I want to share this, as I was impacted by this book. As part of the Impact Driven Leader, we host a book club and I'm excited for your book to be our book for the month of February. So thank you so much for that. I'm excited. Thank you again for your time.
[LIZ]
Well, thank you for sharing it. I hope it does help people really become difference makers and not just position holders and side organizations.
[TYLER]
Love that piece. Love that.
[TYLER]
One of the fun parts of having those conversations, like I just had with Liz, just how organic and connected they are. I mean, as I went through it, there's a lot of notes that I make in preparation to each one of these episodes. I love having that in the background, but just having this authentic, this conversation to where we can share ideas and as one of our, my mentors, John Maxwell teaches about layered learning. I hope you're getting that, listening to these episodes. I hope you get that when you read books like Liz's book Impact Players. I hope you read it with others. I hope you take the opportunity to, you know those around you, create a community to where you can read the book and start to ask questions. It's why I started the round table as part of the impact driven leaders.
I knew that if myself and others, we communicated about the ideas that we had in this conversation that Liz and I had, or the ideas that she shares in her book we're all going to learn at an exponential level. That's my encouragement to you. I hope you do that. I'd love for you to be a part of the Impact Driven Leader book club, where I help curate, guide some of that with daily questions or a part of the round table, where we have a Zoom, where we sit down, we talk about it and we go even deeper. That's an invitation that's always open, always a part of it. It's not something that you feel like you have to do, but man, I'd love for you to do. I'd love for you to be a part of that community that really has this desire to be an impact player. I believe when we, as the world, when we become healthier leaders, we're able to make an impact and will help others make an impact wherever they are at as well.
If you got value out of this episode, share with someone. It's not because of me, but because of the amazing stuff that Liz shared. As well, I'd love if you subscribe, give me a rating, review, let me know how I'm doing. The only way I can get better is by seeing that information. My desire is to get better, to deliver better value to you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being a part of the Impact Driven Leader community and my hope is that you're able to take something from today and go make an impact in your world.
