IDL05 Season 1: Be a Generous Giver, No Strings Attached with John Ruhlin
How can leaders show up and really model true generosity? Where does the value of generosity fit into leadership and how can you show appreciation? Does generosity only mean being extravagant and spending money?
I am so happy to be chatting with my good friend John Ruhlin today about gifting, generosity, and the value of generosity, and how it can change your relationships with all the people around you.
Meet John Ruhlin
John Ruhlin is the world’s leading authority in maximizing customer loyalty through radical generosity.
He is the founder and author of Giftology and has been featured in Fox News, Forbes, Fast Company, Inc and New York Times. While becoming the #1 performer out of 1.5 million sales reps for one of the world’s most recognizable brands, John developed a system of using generosity to gain access to elite clients and generate thousands of referrals.
He and his firm now help automate this process for individuals and organizations like UBS, Raymond James, DR Horton, Keller Williams, the Chicago Cubs, and Caesar’s Palace. John and the Giftology team can help any individual turn their clients into their own personal sales force to drive exponential growth.
In this episode we discuss:
Gifting and generosity
The power of a tangible artifact
Just be human
gifting and Generosity
In the business world, being generous creates big waves of influence amongst your employees. By being giving and perceptive of their needs and what is currently happening in their lives you can create an immensely positive influence by gifting them something they may or may not know they need.
This, of course, makes your employee retention shoot through the roof and naturally increases productivity and overall wellbeing in your company, when your employees feel well taken care of.
“Generosity doesn’t always have to mean being extravagant and spending more money. It can be taking the stewardship of resources that you have and redirecting them differently about how you show up for people. ”
When it comes to generosity and gifting people from your love language, it is important to know that the way you like to be generous is not always the same as the way other people like to receive.
As a leader and business owner, challenge yourself to think about how you can be generous in the ways that people need or would like, instead of only in the way you know-how.
“I want people to understand that’s where I see the bigger paradigm here, it’s to not take the area you’re generous and think ‘I’ll just do more of that’. It is to challenge yourself and be generous in ways that aren’t natural to you because the people around you in those relationships, they’re going to be blown away and they’re going to appreciate it more. ”
The power of a tangible artifact
An artifact in the form of a gift is a physical mark of kindness, and when people receive artifacts from you in an act of generosity they will think of you with warmth every time they see or use this artifact in their daily lives.
As a leader, it is a powerful move to make in keeping your business strong by making through the use of sincere generosity and artifact sharing.
“When you flip the script and show up for people that way and start to combine words of affirmation with the tangible gift, with the act of service... That’s where the sparks and fireworks start to happen.”
It is not about the object itself and its intrinsic value, it is about the emotional connection and representation that it carries from you to the person you are giving it to.
Just be human
Everything in today’s world is automated. Challenge yourself to put effort and energy into rolling up your sleeves and getting involved in things instead of only sponsoring something from afar.
Be a part of the community with your business and be aware of the families that your employees have: this will make you the best leader you can be.
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
John’s website, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, and Twitter
John chatting with Gary Vee YouTube video - skip to 1:29:40
Where Tyler buys his favorite black shirts
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
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Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]: Hey, welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is Tyler Dickerhoof. If this is the first time listening again, welcome back. I know you're looking for something. Glad you're here. So thankful for you to listen in today. I got a special treat. A couple of times a month, I am going to do this share out of our routine, normal routine. This isn't a book club interview. Instead, this is an interview with my good friend, John Ruhlin. He is the founder of Giftology, the Giftology Group as well, the author of the book Giftology. Today, we talk about gifting. We talk about generosity. We go through that, and we share some fun times. Why black shirts are amazing. Literally, this is just two friends chatting. And let me share real quick, how John and I got to know each other.
A few years ago, I hosted a podcast called the Impact Maker podcast with my wife Kelly. And one of the guests that I had was Don Jaeger, the author. And as I've had, as a pattern is, would send gifts to podcasts guests. I thought it was important, I thought it was special to do so. And so I sent Don a man crate. If you're not familiar with man crates, man crates can, are these like box where you got to pry to open the pry bar. And I believe I sent him beef jerky. And so he got the gift. He was just so enamored by it. And he's like, "Man, this just reminds me of John Ruhlin." I'd never heard of John, and luckily Don connected the two of us. We found out that John and I grew up in the same part of Northeast Ohio. My dad's family, his family are all within a small distance.
John went to college with one of my childhood friends. And so we fast became friends, have really enjoyed the relationship that I've built with John. So thankful for him. And so this is one of those conversations, you're going to see a few more of these in the future. Just me, sit down, chat with my buddy, as we talk about gifting, generosity and the value of generosity here in this month, going through the book, Change Your World by John Maxwell. Listen, and I hope you laugh, I hope you enjoy, because we laughed a lot.
[TYLER]: John Ruhlin. John, I'm excited to talk to you, dude.
[JOHN RUHLIN]: Yeah, this is going to be a long time coming [inaudible 00:02:25], but not on the podcast. So, this should be fun.
[TYLER]: John, you and I, we're going to talk today about your book Giftology but I really want to talk about the value of generosity and that's what your book is written around. That's what it's really about. And this podcast is releasing here in the month of February, the book club, I just had John Maxwell on the podcast talking about values and when I reached out to you, I said, "Hey, John, let's come, let's talk about values. Let's just chat about it." Generosity. That's one of John's core values, something that you have done a tremendous job of exposing into the world. I just watched the video, the 10 minute segment you had with Gary V. I'm not going to drop any F-bombs for yourself or anyone else.
[JOHN]: No, that's good. It was interesting to be interviewed by him. That was, I had my heart in my throat, because you never know what he's going to throw at you.
[TYLER]: Yeah, you got to be on your achy.
[JOHN]: Yeah. I mean, I get, you know, I still get nervous when I speak in whatever else, big or small stages, doesn't matter. But that one, I was like, my stomach was doing some results for sure. It's [inaudible 00:03:32]
[TYLER]: So we'll make sure that we put the link to that in the show notes. But John, all right. Tell people who you are. Is that fair?
[JOHN]: Yeah. Well, yeah. When you hear Giftology and gifting, nobody cares about this. I don't even care about gifts. In the day, like generosity, every business rises and falls on relationships. So 20 years ago I was fortunate. I grew up rearing goats on a farm in Ohio, out of our Ohio Buckeye Connection, but I had a mentor who is an amazing attorney. I'd write about him in the book. He was a rainmaker and he was an attorney, but he made all of his deals really because of who he was as a person, how he connected relationships to relationships. So he had literally thousands of people that loved him and that sent him real flow in business, not as a tactic, but just how he showed up in the world. And as this, you know, Rheem country, bumpkin farm kid, I looked at Paul and I was like, "I want to be him when I'm 60."
And I'm 20 at the time. And so for the last 20 years, we've been really modeling and teaching people how to build relationships, how to show up powerfully for people and how to use gifting, generosity, and gratitude. What feels like warm, fuzzy, you know like, "Oh, you should do that at church and teach people how to, any relationship will flourish." If you show up generously and powerfully for those relationships and the referrals and the deal flow and the loyalty and all the things, all the tactics and things, the end results that we want in business will follow if we show up generosity.
[TYLER]: I can speak to, and then that's kind of how we got introduced. We got introduced through a mutual friend, Don Yeager, interviewed Don podcast, got to know Don through John Maxwell, sent Don a gift for being on podcasts. He is like, "I got to introduce you to John. John would be so proud." I'm like, "Okay." And so then we start chatting to realize that our families pretty much grew up close to each other in Northeast Ohio, have a lot of mutual friends from that, and just, you know, I know you're wearing a black shirt. I appreciate that. It's good. You look good in black. And I've only worn black [crosstalk]
[JOHN]: This is my [crosstalk].
[TYLER]: Steve Jobs was totally cool with it. Same shirt, same pants. Now my wife was chastising me last week about this. She's like, "You used to dress nice. And now you just put on black shirts." Well, here's the deal. I'm going to refer to my friend, Brad Laminate, because he shared this with me. When I raise my arms, you can't see the sweat pits. And so the sweat stains. And so that's the thing being on camera as you're on camera and you're getting interviewed by Gary V. I'm not Gary V obviously, but you have a black shirt on so you can raise your arms and no one knows.
[JOHN]: No problem.
[TYLER]: It's really a secret.
[JOHN]: You can go to the stage, you can go to the gym, you could like, you know, like my wife says the same thing. She's like buttoned up in a [inaudible 00:06:15] or something and is like, "You can't wear Lululemon to every, to a wedding. You can't wear Lulu [crosstalk].
[TYLER]: Yes, you can.
[JOHN]: So, I've tried to up my game, but when I'm on camera, like this is like, like Todd Herman wrote the book, the Alter Ego, like you wear a pair of glasses or Beyoncé, you kind of go into a different light. And this is like part of my life, you know, like my Batman or my suit [crosstalk].
[TYLER]: Yea, and some people put on the Jersey. Now I got to ask you, this is, you know, when I said, "Hey, we're going to chat. We're just going to chat." Did you, in the process of finding a black shirt, how did you go through that process? Did you sample a couple of different shirts? Like what did you do there?
[JOHN]: I would say that it seemed crazy when you walk into Lululemon, you see a t-shirt for $60 or $70. And the farm kid, me that the kid who grew up one of six kids garage sale, and my mom, you know, like negotiating, like you're asking a quarter, how about two dimes? So like the part of me, like, so I avoided that for a long time. And my wife actually was the first one who got me some moves. And eventually I went in there and when I started to get on bigger and bigger stages and I actually started to drop weight, I was like, I actually feel confident. And so it was like her buying the first Lulu and then I went in there and bought my own, like Lulu black shirt. I was like, "Man, it just feels good. And it doesn't peel off and you can like wash it and like, it still stays nice and it doesn't wrinkle and all these other stuff." So I've since wore Lulu, Roan and actually this shirt isn't, this is like my little like hidden secret. Go to Costco in the 32 degrees, has like the shirts. They're like a three pack for like 12 bucks.
So I wear that just as much now as I wear like the Lulu and the high end, all the other stuff, which is awesome. But yeah, the black t-shirt started with Lulu that was like, gave me the confidence. You know, I think my wife gave me Lululemon as well. My t-shirt story.
[TYLER]: Really?
[JOHN]: Yeah, she did. And I think it was, you know, when we got started in network marketing, we had some extra money. She wanted a Lululemon because that was popular like 10 years ago. And then she got me some and kind of evolved through it, but I've graduated beyond that. And so here, let me tell you my story. So we get back last year, pandemic 2020, get home from Israel, like deer in the headlights, like, "Oh my goodness, what's this world on Zoom all the time?" You know, working with our team. And I was like, "I'm sick and tired of trying to figure out what I'm going to wear and just mental stress." So I had had a couple of nice, really nice, like I think they're Thomas Vericut shirts. I got Nordstrom, nice shirts. I'm like, "I like how I look at them pictures." Well, I want to find a shirt that just is a little more every day. So I go to Nordstrom, I buy three different black shirts, I get them, I try them on I'm like, which one do I like best? Well, I like the brand, I think it is Vuori (V U O R I). [crosstalk]
So I love them so much. I end up saying, "How can I buy more of those?" Well, they're bulk-ordered so I'm searching all over the internet to try to find these shirts. Well, then I ended up finding a place where I could order them directly from this like store and the guy's like, "Hey, you know, do you want to send another color?" And I'm like, "No." He was like, "Well, we're not going to have them in store until December." I'm like, "That's right. I have one or two. I just want a couple extra," because that way I had enough. And so I love their shirts. I'll put a link in here. They are great. Now a friend of mine, she told me she lived in San Diego. They're based in San Diego. She goes, "Oh, you have their shirts." I'm like, "Yes. I love them." She has an amazing company. There's a lady here who just got diagnosed with cancer, they found out about it, they donated a hundred shirts to be used as a fundraiser for this cancer. I'm like, "I'm in." They are great. That's cool. Like no one asked them. They just said, "Hey here, can you use these shirts?"
[JOHN]: Wow.
[TYLER]: Generous, right?
[JOHN]: Yeah, I love the, Lulu has gotten so big. I mean, they're still a cool company, but there's like, I would love to support like the entrepreneur that's doing it even better. Like you like them better than Lou, right?
[TYLER]: Oh, I don't buy Lulu anymore. I don't know how to say it. It's called Vuori but then [crosstalk]
[JOHN]: It's kind of not a great name. It's like, [crosstalk], like, yeah, it's a, but if they make great products and they get past, you know, they overcome the horrible branding side of the name, side, and, you know.
[TYLER]: So then I just hear the other day, I needed to do the process with pants, because I love Lululemon pants. They're great because you can wear them anywhere. They look nice, fine, and my brother-in-law was a major Rhone fan. He actually, some of the magazines he got featured in it's like great, good for you. There's a couple of years ago. And so he said, "You got to get Rhone." I'm like, "Eh," and so I just got some Rhone pants, dude. They are, I bought three pairs. They're great. I love them. All right. So let's talk about generosity, dude. How can, you know, this podcast is about leadership, the book club is about leadership. How can leaders show up and use and really model true generosity?
[JOHN]: Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that every, you know, it has to be authentic and genuine to the person. I think people will reach out and be like, want to use giftology and generosity and all these different things as a tactic. And it's like, you can't go do something for three months and then be like Daddy Warbucks and showing up for people and then go back to, again these are screwed. You actually probably do more damage. So I do think that figuring out from a core values perspective, like a lot of people I think want to be givers, but don't necessarily, aren't doing the things to make sure that they're connecting with, you know, from my perspective, a faith perspective, which if you feel like you've been given grace and God's the ultimate gift giver and what you've received, you, it becomes an outpouring of who you are and it becomes an outpouring of what you want, how you want to show up for people, whether that's a church, a charity, at home or at your business.
But I do think that when people start to realize and see others being generous and see how that feels and looks and see the type of life that they've brought in, like that a big word of like manifesting and speaking things into existence. But God gave us power to our words and to our actions. And when you wonder, you know, like there's just an energy level when somebody shows up and is generous in a situation. Like you want to be around those kinds of people. And so I think that as leaders, you're realizing that things start at the top, we all want our companies to grow and our people to stick around and you know. God's wired us to, and Robert Cialdini's talked about this in his book Influence. You might have influence with people and you show for people generous. Guess what? God's wired us, that we want to reciprocate that.
And oftentimes it's unequal. It's like, there's been studies where it's like, that's why they leave the little mint or the chocolate in the bill, like your tips go up 16%. that mint costs a half a cent. So I think that as leaders, when you start to realize that there really is, you know, an ROI and I like to call it an ROR, return on relationship, by showing up with people generously consistently, over time, you're making those social deposits in those people. And what I found is that people kind of take for granted as leaders, the standard table stakes things that we do. You know, we pay, well, we have benefits, we have health insurance, we have 401k and nobody brags about to their friends like, "Oh my gosh, I have 401k." Like, those are just normal things. But when you start showing up for people generously in ways that they weren't expecting, like for us, all of our employees get their houses cleaned every other week. Costs us $25 an employee.
But, "Oh my gosh, it's so expensive. Why are you so generous?" And I'm like, "You'll hire somebody and pay them, you know, 45 to 55,000 or 85 to 95,000. That's a $10,000 that you get nothing and it's overhead. It's labor." Whereas if you take that $10,000 and say, "What does that person need? How can I show it to them generously in a way that they wouldn't even show up for themselves? Housecleaning?" We started to pay for unlimited babysitter on date nights, once a month for our employees. Like things that like you wouldn't normally do for yourself, but when you get it, you're like, "Oh my gosh, this person really is thinking about me, my family, my marriage differently." And gifting is that same way. Like when the pandemic hit and people were freaking out, like our employees are stuck at home with their kids and whatever else, like it's horrible.
Like our employees weren't virtual for 12 years. They just weren't having the teachers. And so I'm like, "They are stressed, their spouses stressed, what can we do for our people?" And so we started to buy Intellibed mattresses. They were five, 6,000 mattresses and saying, "Hey, we know you're stressed. You need a good night's rest just as your husband or your wife. Here's the, you know, like we know you probably would do this for yourself, but we want to make sure that you're taking care of for the next 20 years, have a good, great trust on us as a partner, as an employer." And let's talk about people freaking out like that, say five grand on a bonus program or whatever else, like would be taken for granted, just be included as salary. So it's not, generosity, doesn't always have to mean like being extravagant and spending more money. It can be taking the stewardship of resources that you have and redirecting them differently about how you show up for people.
[TYLER]: Man, I mean, you packed a lot in there and I love your examples. I mean, your examples just, I'm not one that's creative in that way. You know, I actually just got done doing Pat Lencioni's Working Genius and I've under, I'm not an inventor. I am a wonder. I am a galvanizer. That's me. And so it was like, I love to take an idea and then how can I make it better? So, I hear those ideas. And like you gave me an idea. You gave me an idea. I think this was last year for anniversary or something before and I just found out the other day where Kelly and I were on Zoom, my wife and I were on Zoom. So I'm giving a little, I haven't even told you this. I haven't told you this yet. We're on Zoom with our company to talk about recognition.
You and I won't go there. I've tried to lead the horse to water, whatever. Anyways, they ask, "Hey, what's the best gift you ever got?" And I'm like, "Kelly, go first." And she's sitting at her desk and she starts to get a little teary-eyed and she goes and grabs this glass like big jar. And she grabs, it, pulls in front of the screen, it's got all these folded up papers in it. And she goes, "This was the best gift I ever got." Well, I asked John, because he's the gift guy like, "Help me out here. I'm not good at this." And he goes, Tyler, just write notes of the things that you think about Kelly. And so, "I don't know how many of them, but fill the jar. There's 50 or 60 of them." She goes, "Whenever I'm mad at him, I just pull one of those out, so I remember what he's like.
And so it was a great Testament of that. And I think where I want to weave this in is if I stop back and think, I was raised in a generous household, I believe that. I believe my parents were generous, but they were very generous unilaterally. They were generous in one way. They worked in this, it's kind of like a broadened scope and you can't see the video, but I'm doing like a circular generosity. And I think that's what I really gained. And as I've learned and grown in generosity is like, I can be generous with my time because I'm a, my love language is surface and yet I need to make it a sacrifice to me to say, "I'm going to go spend money. I'm going to go spend $5,000 on that mattress. I'm going to go spend a thousand dollars on that mug because that's going to speak of a greater contribution on making generosity and not just throw additional money at the seller."
Because that's really just to write the check. It's doing that something above and beyond to let people know I really care. I'm really doing this out of my heart and not just because all that's what should be done. And that's what your book and that's, you know, as we've had these friendship conversations, I've taken in the next level, but I want people to understand. That's where I see the bigger kind of paradigm here, is do not take the area you're generous and think I'll just do more of that. It is challenge yourself and be generous in ways that aren't natural to you because the people around you in those relationships, they're going to be blown away and they're going to appreciate it more.
[JOHN]: Yeah. Well I think we tend to miss the Five Love Languages. It's Gary Chapman's book. He's been a mentor and friend and I'm trying to get him to write the five love languages for business with me. Actually, John Maxwell, his publisher said, we'll publish that book if he agrees to it. Now Aries original publisher, Moody said, no, which is disappointing. He's like, "Oh, your book is too secular." I'm like, "Do you not read Giftology? Or are you not reading the same book I'm talking about?" But so Gary's concept of Five Love Languages, we tend to give love the way we want to receive it. We tend to give the generosity the way we like to receive the generosity. And the power is when you can see the other person, what their love language is and what would really bless them in a way.
And to me, like when you can be generous and play the long game in days, not decades and say, how can I show up for that person? And that's the cool thing about a tangible artifact. I don't even like to call them gifts anymore, because an art, we don't need more stuff and crap and America, really North America, you know, like developed countries. But we all root for an artifact, something that says, this person cared about me this much and put this much emotion and thought. It's not about the thing. The thing is the delivery is the hope for that emotion. And to Kelly's example, you know, the idea of being able to like look at something a decade into the future and you're reminded of the love that you have for her. If there's a ripple effect of that and like, if she looks at that jar and so consciously every day, that's a thought of like subconsciously of wow, it's how he cares about me.
And when you can apply that to business, that's why people are like, "Really John still do the stupid knives and mugs or bras and likes." If you can put something in somebody's hands that they use every day, that's a practical lecture. That's thoughtful, that's an artifact. And they're thinking positive thoughts of you every day for the next 10 years, that's 3,600 thoughts as a leader. Like that's huge to have your employees, your clients, even your suppliers and dealers and people that oftentimes people are like, "Why would you send gifts to your suppliers?" And I'm like, I send gifts to Cutco, one of our biggest vendors. I don't have a business without them. I don't have a business without my insurance company. I don't have a business without my publisher. Like I want to be generous with the people that in a typical world would be generous to me.
When you flip the script and show up for people that way it starts to combine like words of affirmation with a tangible gift, with the act of service. That's where the sparks and the fireworks start to happen. People are like, Oh my gosh, like I've seen billionaires cry from the jars and the mugs, you know? Yes, they're a thousand bucks or 2,500 bucks, but they're not crying over their $50,000 watch. You're crying based upon the thoughtfulness that went into that artifact. And that's where people are like, "I don't get what you do. It seems like who cares?" I'm like, "It's not about the thing. It's about that emotional connection." If you connect with people's heart, like game over. That's just how it works.
[TYLER]: So, you mentioned John. For the people that are listening to the podcasts know obviously I have a relationship with John Maxwell and he shared this with me a couple months ago and I thought it was so good. It was a very pivotal point. He goes the best gifts given have a piece of you as a part of that. And so, you know, it's kind of like if I'm going to give you a gift and it's like, you know, again, if I'm going to send you a black shirt, because I know you appreciate black shirts, but it's a black shirt that I know that I love and you kind of, you look at it, it's like, "Oh yeah, Tyler sent that to me now." Now, it doesn't mean it's my brand. It doesn't mean I'm about it. Like for example I shared this on Instagram the other day. I bought a gift that pained me to buy a gift.
It was supporting a university that I don't like to support, but I'm giving that to a person because I know they love that university. And my hope is that they can just look at that and say, "Hey, I got that from a person that really appreciated the time I gave them. It's kind of sacrificial because I had to, but it's something that I want that person to understand how much I appreciated what they gave me, the value they gave me. And I'm just hoping it becomes that artifact. And there is that little different connection. Is it that I hope they think differently in the future? No, I just hope they understand that I appreciate it and was willing to do that. And I think again, that's where it comes back to, is, you know, giving should be, it's not only such a great virtue of it, but the best giving is giving sacrificially.
[JOHN]: Yeah.
[TYLER]: And you know, biblically, it talks about that, really describes it. And I think when you start to embrace that in a way, oh dude, it becomes so much more powerful. This is not giving to get, but it's giving to appreciate, it's giving to really create this relationship bridge to say, "Hey, I don't need anything, but I want to express how much I value you."
[JOHN]: Yeah, the ironic thing is when you do it, no strings attached and you do it like with the right heart set mindset, like the ripple effect comes back a hundred fold. Like the Bible teaches to be a joyful giver, a generous giver, one, because it's fun. And you start to, like, there are like, it might not come back from that person. It'll come back, like sometimes God opens doors that directs us to all of those things. But yeah, you can show up with no strings attached and not as a manipulation. That's where people are like, "Oh John, you're just giving generously. Or you're just whatever." And I'm like, "Yeah, like we all are in business to make a profit. Like I'm not really a not-for-profit and neither are you," but, and you're able to do things and not keep score.
You're able to make the deposit over and over again. I mean, it's, Vaynerchuck's concept of Jab, Jab, Jab, Right Hook. The right hook is the, you earn the right to ask. It doesn't mean you hold it over their head and say you better. Or it doesn't work in a marriage. It also doesn't work in business relationship. And so, but you do it the right way, the right intentions. Now sometimes, it's like seeds. Like sometimes they're going to fall on fertile soil and grow Oak trees. Sometimes you're going to get taken by the Ravens. Sometimes you're going to fall on unfertile soil. And that's where I think people like the generosity, they like, they want it to do it and magically everything's going to be perfect. And that's not how life works. That's not how relationships work. That's not how, like the biggest opportunities that we've ever worked on.
I had to pour into those relationships like the Cubs. So Corrine, it's the relationship for seven years, Dr. Horton, largest home builder in the country and our clients, same way. The ones that get the best results are the ones that are showing up for people and realizing like, if they're not willing to engage us for a three-year plan, I don't want them as a client because they're going to put stress on the relationship and actually like the other, person's going to feel like, "Oh, they're trying to find my loyalty." That's not how you buy it. Like, we show up for people generously. You can show up for people kindly. You can inspire loyalty, but you don't like expect like, "Oh, I'm going to do this for six months and magically to, you know, the heavens are going to part. Like that's not how God's wired the world.
[TYLER]: Yeah. I mean, I love that in a, you know, look at our relationship. And again, as we've continued to evolve this and have times to catch up like this, we still have never met in person, but I would consider you one of my good friends. I don't know if I'm the same, but you know, it was not [crosstalk]. Go ahead.
[JOHN]: I respond to you faster than that a lot. Yeah, it's funny. Like there's somebody who is always looking to add value and that's an overused word, but like, you're always trying to figure out, like, how can I show up for this person who opened the store or positioned this thing? Like, you're, you know, like most people give a gift, and the best example is it's not a gift, it has your logo on it. It's a promotional item. And most people give a gift the way that they want to receive it or do generosity the way they want to receive it. But if that's not, by nature, it's like you have to put yourself in the other person's shoes and say, "How would they want to receive it? How would they want to get a house?" And I almost blew up my engagement. I did blow my engagement by making the gift, they engagement all about myself. So I'm not perfect at it. Like I've learned a lot of the lessons that I've learned through this by like wounds and scars.
[TYLER]: Well, that's what makes you an expert per se, is you've learned the hard way, right?
[JOHN]: Unfortunate experience. I mean, I've learned from other mentors and I've learned from these giants of industry, but I've also had to learn through, you know, falling on my face and just takes up like, I think the fastest in the wisdom from others, but also like, you know, I've been, battle-tested, no question over the last 20 years,
[TYLER]: We all have in some way shape or form. And again, I think that's part of one will come to acknowledge that. And that's where I'm like, "Hey, I've been through this. I can help people." And I think from a leadership perspective, I think from a, just a personal perspective and applying that, it doesn't, one of the things that you shared that I want to tap into and just kind of finish some, we'll finish with this because we've already spent enough people's time and they should read your book. They should follow you. Should do all those things. Go love on their people, be generous, but human to human instead of the masses. And to me, if there's a world that I could put on for 2021 is just be human. Like, just be human. My word for the year is love. And I think it ties into it. But you shared that. How do you see that playing out as we do this in a leadership in a society point of view?
[JOHN]: Yeah. Well, I think that you know, we were in 2021 or really anytime, like in the last few decades, we want to automate things. We want to say, you know, "How can I have Amazon just send these things out for me?" And that's one of the reasons that we've said, like, whether we're sending out one gift for somebody, you know, a client so that client or employee, or whether we're sending out 10,000, there has to be a handwritten note because without meaning and context and the handwritten note, it feels automated and relationships aren't automated. Generosity is not automated. And so I think big companies, it's easy just to cut a check and be a sponsor of the Superbowl or this organization or this event or this charity. But I think that when you roll up your sleeves and you actually go serve and be a part of things, and I'm guilty of this, like, "Hey, it's just easier to support kids, compassionate, international versus going like you know, be involved with people."
But I think generosity is more of those things where people can tell if you're just trying to cut the check and like abdicate, like any sort of intimacy in relationship. And when you can say like, "Hey, it'd be easier just to add more to the 401k or the bonus program." It's difficult to say, "Hey, I want to start taking care of my employees and figuring out what, like really nice mattresses be clickable," or, "Hey, I don't know my, I don't, I have a hundred employees. I don't know their spouse's name." That's effort and energy. Like, you talked about sacrifice, like, you know, people say, John is, I check the box at Christmas, the [inaudible 00:30:01] might notice the thoughtful thought. And so even with your generosity, I think that being strategic with it so that it has maximum impact. But also like next at this intimate level is really, really powerful to just say, "We didn't just stroke a check. We didn't just do what everybody else does." We kind of like, we're just said, "Hey, what would," yes, people need money to live on?
Yes, people like organizations need checks, but oftentimes like there's other ways that are more of a hassle that actually can be your build those roots and make those social and relational deposits and things. And then people, and so, yeah, I mean, I talk about it all the time, like one human to one human. Even if you're going to scale thoughtfulness, you better have the details dialed in on your generosity or else it's going to fall flat. And it's like, what Robbinson just did with their, they have a thousand employees, they have the worst week of their life because of shutting things down. And I'm not going to get into the behind-the-scenes stuff, but it's obviously a stressful time.
And what did they do? They sent a thousand employees, "Hey, here's a $40 like door dash gift card. Go like buy yourself some subway." To me, somebody is having the worst week of their life. Like that's not the way to communicate generosity and value. Cost them 40 grand and people are posting on Reddit and all these other forums about like, this is embarrassing. And so I think that oftentimes people are investing dollars to be generous thinking they're doing a good thing, but they're not necessarily, it's not landing. And the landing part is just as important as stroking the check.
[TYLER]: Alright. I mean, the best dollar spent is one that makes it positive impact. The worst dollar spent, the worst $10 spent, or the one that undoes all of that is kind of a, you take one step forward to take 10 steps back and you're not getting anywhere.
[JOHN]: Yeah.
[TYLER]: So dude, again, thank you. Great to chat with you and glad to share this with people, obviously, you know, talking about values, generosity. It's something that, I'll be honest again, I've had to learn in a different way and appreciate your book and our relationship to be able to ask you questions, and say, "Hey, how do I do this?" And thankful for that and be able to share that value with other people. So, I appreciate your time. Obviously I'll make sure in the show notes, have all the links to the Giftology stuff, the Giftology book. Dude, thanks. I appreciate you sharing that with everyone.
[JOHN]: Dude, thanks for having me. It was fun.
[TYLER]: Really hope you got value out of that. I've gotten so much value out of John's book. I've given it to a lot of people. And like I said, we've really built a relationship where I'm thankful I get to ask him questions. I'm thankful I've gotten to grow. And as we talked about that kind of paradigm shift of what generosity is, it's not this unilateral I'm going to give gifts that I like to give and appreciate to receive and all those other things. It's about doing it holistically and in a big round picture. And I hope you guys gathered that. I really hope you, as you're reading the book, Change Your World, as you're going through some of those values, see where this value of generosity fits in in leadership. To me, it's a bit of a big deal. There's no better way to show appreciation and how much you care about people than giving them an artifact like John talked about.
I hope you guys took notes. I hope you can take one piece away. And if that one piece is a way, to look at gifting different. To look at generosity, not as something you have to do, but really as a way to appreciate people. That's what I've gotten out of his book. That's what I've gotten out of my friendship with John. And I just appreciate that opportunity and it's helped me become a better leader. So if you got value out of that, man, I'd appreciate you guys hit up, John like his social media, give him a shout out. Thank him.
But here's, as well, I would love for this podcast to reach more people. I'd love to continue to serve people. So help me out. Rate it, review it, share it with someone. If you got value today, share this podcast with someone. That would be a gift that I would love to give John so more people can see what he's doing. I thank you for listening in, go catch some of the other episodes. If you haven't heard them stay tuned. There's going to be more guests in the future. Again, I do this podcast routinely, do a podcast every month for our book club, throwing a few guests that I love to just chat with and talk about, kind of the premise of that book. Go check out my website, tylerdickerhooff.com, the Impact Driven Leader. Thanks for listening today.
