IDL04 Season 1: Change Your World with John C. Maxwell
John C. Maxwell is the man who really helped me discover and understand ‘impact’ and today we delve deep into discussing transformation, why it’s important that this continually happens, and attracting what you want by taking action.
One of the greatest takeaways I got from this was that you need to surround yourself with good people and that anything of value is done with great intention.
His new book, Change Your World is being released today (1/26/2021), I cannot wait for you to read it. Enjoy this episode!
Meet John C. Maxwell
John C. Maxwell is a #1 New York Times bestselling author, speaker, coach, and leader who has sold more than 33 million books in fifty languages. He has been called the #1 leader in business and the most influential leadership expert in the world.
His organizations—the John Maxwell Company, the John Maxwell Team, EQUIP, and the John Maxwell Leadership Foundation—have translated his teachings into seventy languages and used them to train millions of leaders from every country in the world.
A recipient of the Horatio Alger Award and the Mother Teresa Prize for Global Peace and Leadership from the Luminary Leadership Network, Dr. Maxwell influences Fortune 500 CEOs, the presidents of nations, and entrepreneurs worldwide.
For more information about him visit JohnMaxwell.com and listen to the John Maxwell Leadership Podcast.
In this episode we discuss:
What the John Maxwell Leadership Foundation is
Transformation and the hope John has given me
Change Your World book
Action and traction
Shared and sustained thinking
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
BOOK | Win the Day by Mark Batterson
John’s website, Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter
The John Maxwell Leadership Podcast
Join the Impact Driven Leader Community
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.
Really, you want to be a leader to add value to people. every day I gauge my leadership success, based on ‘are the people THAT I’M leading, better off today than they were yesterday?’
John C. Maxwell
all of my life-changing days were days that I got OUT of my comfort zone.
John C. Maxwell
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]: Welcome to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. Glad you guys are here. Glad you're listening. Glad you're joining in. Today, I have a special treat. I have a special treat because this man really truly means a lot to me. You saw the title when you clicked on it. You know, today's guest is John C. Maxwell. Yes, no other than John C. Maxwell, the number one leadership expert in the world by Inc. Magazine. He's written over a hundred books. He's sold over 33, 34 million books. The guy's done a lot, but here's the thing. He has impacted a lot of people. Now, I'm about impact. You're about impact. John is really the person that helped me discover and understand about impact. And we're going to dig through a lot of things today. We're going to have fun. We're going to tell some funny stories. We're going to laugh. You're going to learn a story that not many people know, but there's a video in the show notes.
There's a video for you guys to see a great time that I got to spend with John. So, real quick, let me give you some of the things that you're going to get either out of this podcast and or his book, Change Your World. Again, this podcast is to talk about books, to talk about his latest book, which is releasing right now. Go out, order it today, Change Your World. And that's going to give you the platform, the opportunity to transform as well. So, again, the five things, here we go.
When you hold good values, good values hold you. You might want to stop and write this down. Number two transformation happens in round tables. That's something I've experienced and I hope you guys are going to recognize and see that too. I'll give you an opportunity to get involved with that at the end of the show, in the show notes. Next, change happens in us first. Number four, how to intentionally create a thinking culture. John digs into that. It was one of the segments I took the most notes myself. Number five, you can't change your leadership without change. All right, you've heard enough of me. Let's jump into the conversation I had with my friend John Maxwell.
All right, well, I'm excited for this guest. John, welcome to the podcast. As he is getting ready to say hi, John Maxwell is my guest today. And he's a guy that I've gotten to know just over the last couple of year, really. It's been kind of fast and furious, our relationship, John.
[JOHN MAXWELL]: It has been. But it's been good. It's been really good. Sometimes fast and furious isn't good, but this one's got some depth in it. So, I'm delighted Tyler to be with you today. Very delighted.
[TYLER]: As you guys heard in the introduction, John is obviously a leadership expert in the world and that's how got to know John is wanting to learn more, grow more in leadership. But you know, as listeners are listening to this podcast and they've gotten to know this, learning about my book club, this is to serve your community. And it's really for me to give back as, as part of all the learning that I've gotten and wanting to give back. So, I'd love for you to real quick, just tell people about the John Maxwell Leadership Foundation from your words.
[JOHN]: Well, that's a nonprofit foundation, Tyler, as you know, and it's committed to the transformation of people. It is committed to the transformation of countries. And we do that through teaching values in small groups, we call them transformation tables. What we've learned is very simple. And by the way, we've been doing this now for six years. We're in three countries, we're in Guatemala, Costa Rica, and Paraguay. We're getting ready to go to two more countries this year. And we have 22 countries where the president of the countries have asked us to come in and teach values. So, the John Maxwell Leadership Foundation is the arm that reaches out and basically is committed to teaching values. Our thesis basically is if people learn good values and they live them, they become more valuable to themselves and then they become more valuable obviously to others.
And so we have seen this really grow. We have over 3 million people in our transformation tables. We have a, and that's small groups. I mean, just think how many tables we have when you only have six or seven around a table. And then we have 1.5 million kids that are taking and learning values in their public schools. And these values that we give to the kids are in the classroom. They're not before school or after school. They're in the curriculum, just like math and language will be in the curriculum, and they do it in small tables again. And the kids, not the teachers take turns, facilitating the different values. So, the kids are not learning good values, but they're getting to practice leadership, which is the way you become a leader really.
So, we're just seeing some incredible things happen. We've been doing it intentionally in other countries and Tyler, as you know, because of our friendship in just a few months, because my book Change Your World comes out the end of this month, in just a few months, we're going to be launching this in America. And that's very exciting to me. We're going to be able to, we've really tested it. So, it's not like, will this work? We already know it works now. Let's see if we can implement it right here in our own country. So, that's what the job actual the leadership foundation does. That's who we are.
[TYLER]: Yeah. Well, thank you for that. As we, you know, we'll talk about your book, Change Your World. We'll talk about that as a big part of this podcast is introducing that because part of our book club is reading this book. I've been fortunate through, you know, my involvement in the John Maxwell Leadership Foundation and equipped, to have this information and share it with people and I've seen the values transform me. So, I want to real quick talk about transformation. And one of the things that, you know, I've gotten to spend some time with you last couple of years and you always have fun, right? And I think that's a big part of transformation. And as I was getting ready for this, I was thinking of some of the fun that we had in 2020. Not many people had fun in 2020. I had a lot of fun in 2020.
[JOHN]: You did?
[TYLER]: Yes. In the memory and it, and I think I might share this video is we got to sing hokey pokey together. I don't know if you remember that.
[JOHN]: Oh, I remember that, on the Golan Heights.
[TYLER]: On the Golan Heights. And it does set the scene for everyone. Here we are. We're on the Israeli Syrian border. It was close enough. There's probably guns that were, you know, they could set on us. They could pick out what hair is on top of my head. It was that close. And you decide we're taking picture in front of this tank to sing the hokey pokey. And I'll share the video. It was so much fun. That's one of the things that I've learned from you is not take it so serious. As part of you being, you know, teaching values, but let's say with that one. How important is it for leaders not to take themselves too serious and maybe serious situations?
[JOHN]: Well, I tell people all the time, if you want to be a successful communicator, you have to get over yourself. If you want to be a successful leader, you have to get over yourself. It's not about me. It's about the people, always has been about people. In fact leaders that, it's about them, they'll always take the people down the wrong path because I'm not to serve my needs. I'm here to serve your needs. And in fact, one of the questions I ask Tyler often to people is, you know, "Why do you want to be a leader?" And, you know, there are some leaders they want to be, people want to be a leader because they want all the perks and all the fun and really, you want to be a leader to add value to people.
Every day, I gauge my leadership success based on the people that I'm leading better off today than they were yesterday. And so that's who leader, that's what leadership is. And that's, I think that's what leaders do. But in the meantime, you also can enjoy your life. I mean, who wants to follow a leader that isn't any fun. Who wants to just everyday have, feel heaviness? We carry a big enough load, and I find that having fun and just singing the hokey pokey on a tank at the Golan Heights. First of all, I promise you, Tyler, it's never been done before, never been done with before. I can promise you no one in the history of Israeli relationships have ever gone to the Syrian boarder, got on a tank, and decide to do what we did.
[TYLER]: But it was a memory and experience for sure.
[JOHN]: It was.
[TYLER]: So, let's dive into your book a little bit, Change Your World. I'm excited to, you know, for people to read it and experience the transformation tables that I have, but I really want to real quick, as I've gotten to know the you of last couple of years, I've seen you get very emotional talking about this book. And I think I know why. Can I share?
[JOHN]: Yes.
[TYLER]: I think in all the leadership that you have taught in all of the countries that you've gone to teach leadership, the boardrooms, the executives that you've gone to teach leadership, where it works well, it works well for a reason and where it doesn't, it doesn't work well for a reason. And I believe you understand and realize where there aren't common values held as a foundation, that's when leadership doesn't work and when those values are held across, that's when it does work. So, I believe watching you and you being such a model to me that, and that's my excitement of these values is I see that if you lay in that foundation of values, that's when you can have amazing healthy leadership.
[JOHN]: That's a fact. That's very true. I was a, few years ago, I was in Kiev, Ukraine and I was getting ready to go out and speak to 15,000 leaders. And my translator was in the green room with me, really a nice guy. I'd never met him, but he was very excited about helping me. And he said, "I've read your books. And so to meet you and to be able to serve you today will be wonderful." But then he looked at me, he said, "But I want to make sure that you know something before you go out." He said, "You talk about how leaders add value to people." He said, the 15,000 people you're going to go talk to, they won't understand that at all. They don't know what it is to have a leader add value. All they have known under communism is leaders take value from them and depreciate them. And so he said, "I just want, I don't I want you to be set up wrong. You're you can't just go out and say, leaders add value to people because these people connect with that at all.
And when he finished Tyler, he just left the green room. I thought, well, thank you very much. You know, I'm about 10 minutes from going on stage and he's just taken a core part of my teaching and tossed it in the wastepaper basket and said, "Hey, you know, that will not work". But as I thought about it, I so greatly valued his advice and I knew that what he said was true right on. And when I walked out that day, I looked at that crowd and I asked them, I said, "How many of you have ever been manipulated by a leader?" Never hand was raised. I said, "How many of you have ever felt that your leader do value you?" Every hand was raised, and now I'm connected with them. They're saying, "Oh, he knows where we are." And I said, "What I would like to do today is I want to talk to you about how to change that. And the first step, I won't have any time to talk to you about three steps, but I will give you the first step tonight." I said, the first step of changing that culture from leaders who manipulate people and misuse and abuse people, I said, the first step in changing that is to truly value the people you lead.
And I started talking about the fact that if I value you, I will add value to you. Just like, if I don't value you, I'll devalue you. And I went down that lane for a while and they just, it was an incredible evening. And I said, "You can change it right now." And it's kind of like Change Your World. What I've learned is don't ask people to change the world. It's overwhelming. Don't ask me to change the world. I mean, billions and billions of people, are you kidding me? That just, I mean, it'll paralyze me. It doesn't challenge me. I just kind of, like go over to the corner and suck my thumb and say, "This is too big." But the moment I said, but can you change your world? How about your family? How about your community? How about the team that you're on business with?
Can you go and start to change them? And by the way, I'm going to give you a tool. I'm going to give you a resource of how to do that. And would you be willing? Then, all of a sudden, I find people are very eager. They want to make a difference, Tyler, it's just that they're not sure they could make a big difference, but if you tell you, can you make a community difference, can you do something right where you are with the people that, you know, they buy real quickly and then they get very excited about it. So, that's where we are and that's why I'm so excited about the book, because it's a blueprint. It's a roadmap. I mean, anybody that picks up the Change Your World book, if they really want to make a difference, I mean, I ask people all the time. "Do you want to improve your life? Well, yeah. Do you want to improve the life of others?" Yeah. Well, if you do, then I've got a book for you that will improve your life and will improve the life of others. In fact, we start with you. We start with me. I mean, transformation begins with me. You cannot give what you do not have. And so, therefore it starts with my life being changed with values and now all of a sudden I become contagious in helping other people have their life changed.
[TYLER]: John, you mentioned transformation. And you know, for me that's what gives me hope, is you give me hope because I know that I was a broken person. I wasn't the healthiest leader I could be. And there's three ways that you've given me hope. You've helped me understand that everyone has the gift to lead. Even if it's just themselves, right? Number two is everyone can transform and grow. They just have to choose too. And then number three is when you pour belief into others, you'll see them give anything to a cause. It's really the, those incomes is what I've seen and what I've seen that I've been able to transform and help others. I'd love for you to share. How have you personally transformed in your life at any given stage where you said, where was there a transformation it's like, "Man, I had to get over this to become a better leader."
[JOHN]: Well, two thoughts on that Tyler. Transformation, personal growth, life change has been a journey and a continual process for me for 50 years. So, it's not something that I do sometimes and then I have days where I say, "Boy, you know, I'm not doing that today." It is a process. It's an everyday growth experience. But in the process of growing every day, you have some days that really stand out that are what I would call life changing days. And I could put them almost under one category, Tyler. And that is all of my life changing days were days where I got out of my comfort. I'm not saying this would be true for everybody, but it has been true for me. In fact, during COVID-19 you heard me because you listened to all my teachings during COVID-19, one of the things I taught during this very dark difficult time is that everything that you want and everything that you need, but you don't have it, but you want it and need it, but you don't have it, everything that you want and need, but you don't have is outside of your comfort zone.
I mean, when you think about it, the only reason we don't have what we want or what we need is because it's out of our comfort zone. If it was in our comfort zone, we'd already have it, but you know, it's across the fence. It's on the other side of the water. And so therefore, we say, "You know what, I'll just keep what I have." And so one of the great things about COVID-19 is it knocked everyone out of our comfort zone. When you tell people to get out of the box, well, you know, COVID-19 blew up the box. I mean, you don't need to tell anybody to get out of the box. They don't have a box anymore. They're lucky, they got maybe a little piece of box over, but they don't have much of a box because of that. And I think that is good and that is healthy. And when you talk about my personal growth and my development, every time I had to make a major change in my life and get out of my comfort zone, what accompanied that change was transformation.
It's almost like you have to make a personal change to have a divine change. And I'm not trying to get overly spiritual with people, but it's almost like if I'm willing to make a human change, then in my life there will be a supernatural change in my life. And I mean, I could go right back to I mean, there are so many examples of this, but I could go back to after 25 years of being a pastor of a church. I felt that my emphasis should be in the business sector community. And I had to basically do a, you talk about a pivot. I had to have a major change in my life. I had to leave everything. Basically I had my education course, studied for and had learned. Then I had to leave all that behind me and learn, you know? And so the hill that I had to climb was very steep, but it was in that climb in that major transition that I had incredible personal growth, and then I think even supernatural assistance to help me get there.
And I guess what I'm saying to people is that in our journey, Tyler, there are times when we come to a crossroads and that crossroads is what I would call trade-off. And basically we've climbed the mountain to a certain level and all of a sudden we realized that if we want to go higher, we have to change something. We have to trade off something, you know, and maybe I need to give up security for significance. And so, if I make that transition and make that trade off, then I get to keep going. If I don't make it, I stop at that part of that mountain, and I'll never go higher. So, I want people not to miss that transformation is a result of being able to trade off, make trade-offs being willing to get out of my comfort zone, being willing to try things I've never tried before. In our John Maxwell team we have what we call the cycle of success in our coaching community that's been very successful, you know. In our cycle of success, what do we have? We have test, fail, learn, improve, and reenter. But as soon as we reenter, what do we do? We go right back in again and we test fail, learn, improve, reenter.
And that cycle, now it's not a journey. A journey is you could pass something and never come back to it. But a cycle means you keep coming back to it. So, I don't want people to see the cycle this way. I want them to see it, is I do those five things. I test fail, learn, improve, reenter and every time I come back on that cycle, I just go to a different level. So, it's almost like you spiral upward. And so finally you get way up here and be able to say, "How did you do that?" "Well, I did that by testing, failing, learning, improving, and re-entry." And I think anyone that wants to be transformed has to understand. It's kind of like if you'll make the first move and make that decision to let go or to give up or to change, then all of a sudden, all manner of unforeseen things, things that you would never imagine began to come your way.
And I've asked myself many times, okay, what happened here? And what happened was very simple. I took action. And there's what I call action attraction. When I take action, I begin to attract things to me because I'm moving than if I wasn't moving, I would never attract them. So, the good things I need are attracted to movement. They're not attracted to me sitting there saying, "When I get the resources, I'll move." No, it says, "When you move, you get the resources." There's a world of difference between those two, as you know, Tyler. So, when you ask me that question, such a great question, I think I've taken too long to answer, but the point being is that's how I grow. That's how I've developed. That's how I've been transformed.
[TYLER]: Oh, wait a second. The day I cut you off and say, stop teaching is a day that I just might as well go die, right? As you have said, "Hey, the day you have nothing more to learn, just forget it. Forget all about it. You're done." As you're going through that, one of the things that I read, and I know he was a big impact on you as Peter Drucker described that as a corkscrew and as a corkscrew continues to wind up. And to me, for the audience, if you're thinking about that as John described that that's really like a corkscrew. As you come around and around, but you're never another level higher, and I'm not, you're just spinning circles. Don't spin circles.
[JOHN]: I like the corkscrew analogy. I like that. Oh, thank you, Tyler.
[TYLER]: That's Peter, not me.
[JOHN]: Well, he mentored me, Peter Drucker, right? I'll put that in a book that, you know, I'll get it, you know, the corkscrew cycle or something. I don't know what I'm going to call it, but, and I'll give you credit. I will give you a royalties credit.
[TYLER]: Well, to take another thing that you said there, and maybe you can expand upon it is this whole action and attraction. And what I thought about there, and again, this is for the listeners, a different way to think about it is if you're holding a magnet and you're not doing anything with that magnet, it's not going to track anything. You start moving that magnet, it's going to start to attract things. And that's what I think about, is you have to be that magnet is how do you get into a magnet system? You have to be an action. Let me take part of that. And I think one of the things that I gained in there is as we transform, we have to kind of almost shed a skin or we have to get sharper and develop things. And one of the things that I've really, really, really learned from you, and I think this is values-based, but I think it's beyond that is, and this is how I put it into my words. You're better off to be the sharpest knife in the kitchen, rather than all the utensils in the drawer. And what I mean by that is hone your strengths, get better and better and better at those strengths. And to me, as you're talking about this, and as we relate it back to this corkscrew, as you continue to evolve, and again shed that skin, that's a matter of getting rid of things that aren't helping you grow.
It's if you're holding onto it, you're not allowing yourself to go through that crucible of change. Well, then you're not able to move on to bigger things. And as you described, moving from, you know, being a pastor, you had to get rid of those things and hone into things that you are great at to be able to serve a bigger community. How does a leader that maybe is learning that for the first time, really start to comprehend that and to know how they can lead better?
[JOHN]: Well, the way you're describing Tyler is the way I would come behind you is I'd say, as you've heard me say, you have to give up to go up and there is no going up without giving up. In fact, the higher you go, the lighter it's got to be. And so, for a new person, that's very hard because what happens is I hold onto that, which gives me security. And when you're young, you don't know a lot. So, what you know is very important to you. One of the ways I say is the older you get, the more wisdom you have, the more you know. Well, the more you know, the more you have options to let go some of that stuff that you know, but when you start off and you get a little success on your belt and you've done it only one way, you're not so sure you want to do it another way. It's kind of like, I know this one way works and so there's a tendency for us to, I think, just kind of ride the same train. In fact, when I get, we'll go back to my pastor years, I built up, by the time I was 28, I had the 10th largest church in America.
And I know how I grew it and how I built it. And for probably three or four years time, I would teach this method of growth. And I would teach it as the only method. Well, it was the only method because it was the only method I knew and then I went to a conference where there were some leaders who had bigger, better than I was that's for sure. And I heard them and I thought, "Oh my gosh, they're not doing like I do." And all of a sudden I realized, "Well, there's maybe more than one way." And it goes back to, you've heard me talk about the fact that there's always an answer, but usually there's more than one answer. And so when I tell people all the time, when they say, "Well, I don't know if I, you know, all I've ever known was just bottled water. Oh my gosh, you mean, I got to give this thing up. And well, but I know this helps me. I know what I can do with this." Well, when you only have one security blanket, you only have one bottle of water, it's awful hard to get it up. When you get up the mountain, you've got several bottles of water. Then it becomes a little bit easier.
So, I understand the young leader who fears that taking that step or that risk. But what I would tell that young leader is, it is impossible for you to develop your leadership without intentionally making changes in your life. It isn't, growth means change. You show me a growing person, I'll show you a person that is continually adjusting, changing. Tom Watson, who is a great golfer, I think Tom's won, I don't know, a lot, maybe 54 golf tournament, something like that. I was playing golf with him one day and we had got into a very interesting conversation. Two things happened that day that were very interesting and I'll never forget it. On a par five, I got a birdie and Tom Watson got a par. I knew it. Oh my gosh. I knew it. I just, on one hole, that was only one hole. There are 18 of them. So, it's like, one, John was one in 17. Okay. But on one hole, I beat him. And I knew it and I was kind of on the inside getting, what I loved about Thomas was when we were walking off the green, he put his arm over my shoulder and said, "John, you beat me on that hole." I said, "Oh, yes, yes."
Now, that was a fun moment. But the thing that was just transformational to me is that day we were talking about him winning all of his tournaments. And he said something to me, that was a very amazing. He said, "John, there's only five tournaments that I've ever won in my life." Now think of it. Let's say he's run 150. I don't know the exact number, but I'm close. So, only 10% of his tournaments that he said that on the first day, when I teed it up, I was hitting the ball so well, that for four days I just hit the ball, won the tournament, didn't make any adjustments. He said, "All the other tournaments, I had to make adjustments maybe after the first round. So, I had to go get to the practice rig. I had to work on my swing. I had to make some changes." And then he looked at me and said, "To be honest with you, if you win a lot of golf tournaments, you have to adjust your way to victory." And I loved that thought, you have to adjust your way to a victory. And I think that there are many of us, we don't understand that and we haven't adjusted our way to victory. And so it's kind of like, "Well, this is the way I've done. This is the way I do it." And oops, I think that that's why the ability to pivot, the ability to learn from what we have done and to evaluate our experiences is very important.
[TYLER]: Well, I mean, that's what, you mentioned Tom Watson in sports and you watch sports. And the people, the players, the coaches that are able to make those adjustments in game are the ones that win. And it's, you know, I love looking at that in life and constantly reminding myself what got you here, won't get you there, whatever it is may be. You have to be of that learning mindset, which again is, I know a big part of you. Let me transition with that. And, you know, obviously this podcast is, and we're talking about your book and I hope people read it as a part of the book club, because I know with that, we're going to be able to learn better. And that's another thing you've taught me as layered learning. And I remember one of the fun instances of layered learning, is again, back in Israel, we're sitting there at breakfast and we're with Elliot, the IDF in the army. And he's talking about one of the things that he did with his, I'm going to tell the story real quick and help fill me in where I get this wrong, but it was good. And so Elliot, describe what the journey to Elliot is
[JOHN]: Elliot is basically the voice of security for Israel. He travels the world, including coming to United States, helping countries make sure that their borders are secure. And he was our private guide, brilliant, brilliant strategist of which I'll never forget his teaching. And I'll never forget that breakfast that we had, because that was incredibly insightful, Tyler. So, that's who Elliot is. He's the, basically the voice of security for Israel.
[TYLER]: Yeah. So, he was talking about going on this march with all of the, I guess his soldiers. And he said, one of the things that he learned, he would keep candy in his pocket. Now thinking about this, these are soldiers that are carrying, you know, 60, 70, 80 pound packs and, you know, they're in their twenties or whatever, and he's got candy in his pocket. And one of the things that he really expressed there, and I know you, and I both took it as like, "Wow, it's in leadership." It's so important to one give encouragement, even when it's tough. And he would go to these guys and he would give them a piece of candy and said, "Hey, just keep going. We're almost done." And it was that example of you know, leadership and growing and giving that I think, you know, as I sat there and that layered learnings, like, "Oh, how important is it to recognize when people are doing well even when it's a tough situation?"
We all know it's tough. It's, you know, blisters and all those things as soldiers carrying these packs, just imagine on this long hike and he's giving them candy. This is the commander leading them and he's coming up beside him and saying, "Hey, just a little bit longer. Here's a piece of candy. Suck on this and you're going to get through it." And it was really, I mean, it was awesome. Where I wanted to go with that is I've seen you do that in rooms that you lead and let me, you know, two experiences we got to work on a book together. I remember here last summer, I got to take part in this new book coming out. And both times I was in that room it really blew me away. It blew me away because I've been in a lot of different boardrooms. I've been in different, you know, board meetings and the excitement and yet the way that everyone bound together and support each other and that layered learning and that layered, "Hey, we can do this." And it, wasn't, "Hey, I'm going to take your idea and let's make it better." How have you, as a leader, culturally honed that in rooms that you're in?
[JOHN]: I love that question, Tyler, because there is intention there. Basically the core of what you're asking is very simple. I have had the opportunity and the privilege of surrounding myself with very good people. And so when I come into a meeting like that, into a room like that, I have a genuine excitement because I want to bring to the table an idea or a thought, but I know that the moment that I share that idea, that people in that room are going to take it and they're going to make it better. Now, this is, in fact, I wrote a book called How Successful People Think.
[TYLER]: That was the first book I ever read of yours.
[JOHN]: Oh, is that right?
[TYLER]: Yep. First book I ever read of yours.
[JOHN]: Well, I love that book. And what I do with that is I talk about, there are shared thinking and sustained thinking. And shared thinking basically is if I have an idea, Tyler, and you have an idea, but we never share it with each other, we still only have one idea. But the moment that I share with you my idea, and you share with me your idea, we have at least two. Now we're making progress. But honestly, what happens is, and sharing of ideas, one plus one doesn't equal two. It equals three. Because when you share an idea and I share an idea, all of a sudden that triggers another idea. A great idea is just the end result of several good ideas that got piled on until you got a great idea. Great idea is never birthed in a vacuum. So, the sharing of ideas, and when I come into the room, that board room that you're talking about, those people in that room, I get very excited because I know that whatever I bring, they're going to make it better. And you said, now, John is that most of the time? No, it's all the time. I could not think of any time in the last 10 years of my life, where I've gone into a room with good people, shared an idea, and every time they improve it, they make it better. So, shared ideas become great ideas. Then if you go another step in your thinking on this, sustained thinking is essential to success.
Shared ideas give me more ideas, but this is the state that could, they've done, they've done research on this where they'll have like 10 people in the room and they'll give them an hour to think on a problem or solve a problem. And at the end of it, five of the people, they can do this random, it doesn't matter what five out of the 10, they take half the people out of the room. The five that are left remaining, they say, "Now, look, we're going to give you an extra hour to think about this. See if you could improve it. A hundred percent of the time. It's improved. Now, and it didn't keep the five smartest in the room or the five, it doesn't matter. It's random. The point being, if you'll spend an extra hour thinking about, with other people, thinking about an idea it's bound to get better.
So, once you understand that shared thinking is sustained thinking, have this incredible magic combination of compounding what I get into a room, I'm very excited because I just know that when I walk out of that room, I've got to come out with something much better than when I went into the room. And everybody in the room knows that too, because they've been with me for a long enough to know that it's not my idea that wins. It's the best idea, which, it always is. In fact, to be honest with you, it's seldom my ideas. Seldom is my idea. I initiate the ideas a lot, but maximizing the ideas, almost always someone else put the cherry on the top for me. And I want all, I'm so glad people are part of this podcast with you, Tyler, because this is worth its weight. Go right here. If you just understand how shared sustained thinking takes you to a higher level, I mean, everything gets better because of it.
[TYLER]: I mean, we could go on another 20 minutes talking about this. I know maybe we'll come back to that, right? Because, one of the things that you shared and I'm going to just tease it a little bit is thinking, excuse me, doing is, you know, action and doing and thinking are different things. And if you just do, you're not thinking a lot of times and thinking is beyond action. You know, if thinking is actionable, you have to purposely think. And as you've talked about this shared thinking, sustained thinking, that's a process of like doing. And if people just say, hey, they're going to do and take action, but they never think about it. You know, it's the classic Abraham Lincoln quote is like, "Give me six hours to chop down a tree. I'm going to chop it for four."
Well, I could guarantee those four hours, he wasn't just sharpening the ax because if he was doing that, there is no steel left. There's a lot of thinking, intentionality. "How am I going to cut down this tree? What am I going to do? Where's it going to fall? "All those things that I don't think people conceptualize. We won't go there because that'll take, we could spend a half hour just talking about that, right. As this is a book club, and one of the comments I made to you at one point is I had just finished reading How to Win Friends and Influence People. And that is a book that I know you read as a young, you know, a teenager, preteen. Your dad gave to you. I've now taken into it where, I treat it, read it every year as it's so great.
And one of the things that I mentioned to you is, you know, as I am around you more and more, and I see how you carry yourself, I see the things that you think about and do, you really emanate a lot of Dale Carnegie? I see that in you. And you know, now I'm reading another book, would you gave me Leadership in Turbulent Times by Doris Kearns Goodwin. And I see these elements sprinkled about, you know, from Lincoln to Theodore Roosevelt, to Franklin Roosevelt, to Lyndon Johnson, and things that I've seen in you that you've picked up. So, I want to ask you this question, as you've read a lot of those books and those books have been really important to you, how did you put those things into practice, what you are reading in order that you could grow as a leader?
Well, it's a great question. And you and I both know that without action, you have no results. So, let's not de-value thinking, thinking needs to be on the front end on the back end. And you've heard me talk about the bookends of success. Preparation. Reflection. Preparation is thinking ahead of time, getting ready for the action. Reflection is thinking after the action on how well did it go and how can I improve it and how can I make it better? I call those the bookends of success, but let me say this. Success is in the middle. It's the action. In fact action gives you traction. So, I'm just finishing up a book and I'm just maybe 15 pages from being finished with it. And I have marked that book pretty good, because it's a very good book, in fact.
[TYLER]: You're going to tease us or you're going to tell us what book that is?
[JOHN]: Well, the title of the book is Winning the Day, I believe is the title of it. It's winning the day and ---
[TYLER]: Is that by Mark Batterson?
[JOHN]: It's by my friend from Washington DC. I write, I read all of his books and now I'm trying to think of his name.
[TYLER]: Mark Batterson.
[JOHN]: Thank you, Mark Batterson, Mark Batterson. Mark, and I think it's called Winning the Day and it's a phenomenal book, phenomenal, but I'm just 20 pages from finishing and I've gone through and I've marked the book. Now, that's all thinking. I'm reading, underlining, marking that sucker up. The first time I read a book, if it's a good book, I read it twice. If it's a good book, the first time I mark the book, the second time I go back to the markings and I reread it. So, it's the first time I mark the book the second time the book marks me. And the second time I read that book, I'll go back to my markings with my iPhone and I'll pull out every thought, every idea, every quote that speaks to me and I will file it appropriately under whatever the subject title is. And then what I'll do is I'll go through all those things that I now have gleaned out of the book that are on my iPhone and I'll put action steps with them.
Okay. Okay. "Now that, I think that's a good quote. I think that's a good idea. What am I going to do with that idea?" And I realized that it, nothing happens without action. You know, in the middle of the word traction is word action. You get traction with action. And so the bookends of success are preparation and reflection. That's thinking, but they are the bookends of success. What's success? Action. Action in the middle, preparation on the frontend, reflection on the backend. Now you're cooking.
[TYLER]: I love it.
[JOHN]: I do too. I love it because it works
[TYLER]: Oh, it does. I mean, and to me, as I look at you, you're, I mean, it's fun for me to read those books to go back and say. "Oh yeah, I've seen John do that. I've seen a of model of that. I understand that. And for me, that's a part of my personal learning, is being able to see it modeled and just like, "Okay, I can do this too. I can grow that way." Because I know you've said you had to grow in those ways. As part of that as is one of the things I believe for leaders is, you know, we can all go with intention to actually want to change things, but it comes down to at some point saying, "Hey, my actions are creating different reactions. So, as you did that as a young leader, as you've grown, as you continue to do that, how do you think people most identify those transformations in you?
And I know you've had some. You've talked about your patience as you were younger. You've talked about just now how you'll read that book and you'll go through, and I know you'll take actions. When there's been a time that maybe someone, you know, recognized the transformation in you and helped them act differently that you're like, "Okay, I'm on the right path?"
[JOHN]: Well, I think yes, there've been many times, but I think it only happens to people who know you well, first of all. People that don't know me well, they don't see the growth. They don't see the process. It's like watching a movie. They just get one frame of the movie and so they basically judge the movie on three minutes, not on, you know, an hour and a half, but I think people that have been in the movie with you the whole time, they see. They not, the good news is they see my growth. You know, the bad news is they also see the things that hinder me from growth. In fact, I just finished a course. We just wrapped up 2020 and one of the questions I asked myself, as I reviewed 2020, going into 2021 was what do I need to change?
What do I mean? It's you know, what did I do last year that didn't have any kind of return? And I don't want to do it again this year. I don't want to have two years of bareness, no return. And again, it goes back to, I look at them and I see them and I spell them out. And then, so when I go into 2021, I say, "Okay, for example, maybe I spent too much time with a person that didn't bring a return there. And I said, "Okay, then that's not a bad relationship, but it is not a relationship I want to feed anymore. That's for sure." And so, I think that we have to understand that as we change and transform, the people around us not only see the change. They experience the change from the fruitfulness of our life. So, the people that are closest to me, they're growing and learning because I'm growing and learning. So, it's almost like, I see the change. That's good, but even better is I'm experienced to the change with him. And I think that's what's beautiful about bringing people along with you is that, you know, yes, I'm growing, but so is Tyler growing. And that's what I love about the book clubs, example.
Everybody gets in your book club, they're going to see an experienced change. They're going to see change, but they're going to experience it in their own life. And to me, that's the ultimate, I mean, while you have a book club, you're not having a book club just to learn, you're having a book club to improve. The value of learning is improving just like the value of failure is learning. So, what's beautiful is transformation is highly contagious. And when it's done in group settings, I can promise you no one will be left the same way when it's done. And that's a beautiful thing.
[RYAN]: Can I ask you to mentor me for a second?
[JOHN]: Yeah. For a second, I can handle that.
[TYLER]: For a second. How do you suggest, I've seen this come up, and this ties exactly to books, so don't worry. It's not so far-fetched. One of the things that I found is where I get personal frustrations because I'm learning and I'm growing. And I see people that, you know, one of the authors that I don't know if you know her very well, Paula Faris, if not, I'd love to introduce you. And she and I were talking as her book is part of this book club too, is that, you know, it's one thing when people profess values, but their choices don't mimic those. And as someone that I, if I'm looking, I'm in a leadership position or a relationship position, how do I best interact with people that are professing values, but they don't live them?
[JOHN]: Well, the best way to do that is by privately meeting with them. And what I would do, Tyler, if I was to talk to you about maybe you profess to value, I didn't think that you were flushing out. First of all, I would never ever have this meeting with anyone else except you. And I would share with you that I respect you enough to have this meeting and that I care for you enough to maybe confront you. And I would always start it off by saying that, this is very important. I hope everybody on this program gets this. I would start it off by saying, "You need to help me Tyler, because I may be seeing something incorrectly. Now, notice how I approach you. You need to help me Tyler. Perhaps I'm seeing something incorrectly. Let me share with you with what I perceive I'm seeing. Help me out. Maybe I'm missing it."
And then I'd say, now what I do, what I perceive is that you talk this value, but I don't see you live it. And so, I wanted to have this conversation with you to give you an opportunity to share with me how you live it, and it's highly probable I've missed something. So, help me out. Do you see how I've just approached you in a kind way, and I've given you certainly a room to express and explain and share yourself? And I just love that approach instead of becoming, say, look, you know, you you'd say this, I don't see you doing this. And that may be true, but I also know there've been times in my life where I didn't see things correctly. And because I gave the person the benefit of the doubt, they really, all of a sudden walked on me and like, "Oh my gosh, thank you very much. I had never seen that until right now." So, I think it's, you know, it goes back to Dale Carnegie again, who said, what you say is important, but how you say it is more important. And I think that's just very true.
[TYLER]: All right. Last question. Do you have one book to read for the rest of your life, that's not the Bible? A book that maybe has had a tremendous impact with you that you could go back and say, "I want to live those things again." What is that book?
[JOHN]: That's a hard one. See, you took away my A. You took away the Bible.
[TYLER]: I did that on purpose.
[JOHN]: Well, thank you very much. And the reason I say that is I haven't, as you know, in my office, because you have been there, I have some books right over to my right, that have really changed my life. And I go back and pick them up sometimes and every time I pick them up and I read a little bit of that book, I ask myself why that wasn't that good? Wasn't that good? And then I realized it was outstanding when I read it, because I was at a crossroads where that book answered some questions for me. And I needed that book right at that time and so, therefore it was a life-changing book, but I have grown. So, when you asked me what book, I mean, I could talk about Jordan Peterson and his 12 Rules book. I mean, there are some classic books.
I could talk about Dale Carnegie and I could talk about As A Man Thinketh. I mean, so there are books, but what I want you to, I think I want you to hear is outside of the living word, the Bible. The books that I have read that have impacted my life, I've outgrown them. And that doesn't take away anything from the power of the book. It takes, it just speaks to the fact that I've developed myself. So, to go back to a book and reread it, I don't think it would have the same effect upon me. In fact, I know that it would, and I, outside of maybe three or four books, Dale, Carnegie's being one of them, I haven't re-read very many books. Not too many. They stood the test of time for the time and they got me to where I needed to go with that moment and they added incredible value to me. And that's good enough.
[TYLER]: Yeah. Well, I love that answer, because I think it encompasses so many things that we've talked about today about transformation, about, you know, all those learning elements.
[JOHN]: Yeah. The effect you've heard, we talked about, even my books that I wrote 10 years ago, I go back to, "Oh my gosh, was I that bad. I got to go and improve it." You know, if you're constantly growing, honestly, what was good in its season, it's no longer maybe as helpful to you.
[TYLER]: Yeah. Because if you're not, we go back to that corkscrew, because then you're not going up. You're just spinning in that spot. John, thank you so much. Thank you for everything that you've meant to me in my life. I don't know where my life would be if our paths would not have crossed personally. And I know you say to everyone and I know you mean it to everyone, but I am thankful for you as being a friend in my life. And I took a ton of notes which I won't lie to you, I knew I would, and so again, I can't thank you enough, and I hope everyone today got to know you a little bit better and at the same point are excited about this journey that we get to go on together to learn and grow. And I'm excited about to change the world. I'm excited about people experiencing transformation and thank you so much.
[JOHN]: You're welcome. Thank you. You've absolutely added value to my life too. So, love to you and Kelly. God bless you guys.
[TYLER]: Thank you.
[TYLER]: All right. Thank you again to John. Man, was that not good or what? I mean, I have to sit here and partial, because I got to learn. Some of the greatest takeaways that I had there is about surrounding yourself with good people. That's how you have this sustained thinking. That's how you start with shared thinking. I don't know if that was one of the great things you picked up, but what I really as well would distress is anything of value is done so with intentionality. When I launched this podcast, the Impact Driven Leader podcast, it was about to add value. I knew that if I did it, I would get better intentionally along the way. That means having phenomenal guests like John Maxwell, like Ryan Hawk, like next month's guest, Paula Faris.
I can't wait for you guys to listen to that interview. We talk a lot about values as well. She wrote the book Called Out. She was the Good Morning America host. She was the host of the view. Just an amazing lady that, I love that leadership book. So, if you're ready for next month, get that book, get ready, join us in our book club. And again, with this book, change your world. There's going to be some super special, absolute bonus pieces and parts to this book. If you're a part of the Impact Driven Leader book club. The content, the material that I've been using with my friends and colleagues and really people that are near and dear in my life over the last three to four months, we're going to share within this group and really encourage you to facilitate in your world. So, I want to encourage you be a part of the Impact Driven Leader book club.
Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. Thank you so much for making something really move forward in the world to help us all grow and increase the level of value that we hold together. So, thank you for being a guest. Thank you. And I would appreciate if you rate. If I earned a five-star rating, great. If not, help me get better. Tell me where I can get better. Share with someone else, subscribe, and let's go make a better world by increasing the value we have in ourselves and others as John shared with us today.
