IDL07 Season 1: Living a Life of True Calling with Paula Faris
How can you find your true purpose and your true calling? Do you know who you are outside of what you do? Is your fear of feeling fear stopping you from stepping out of your comfort zone? Why should you differentiate between your worth and your work?
I am a Buckeye and Paula Faris is a Wolverine… And generally, we don’t get along very well, but today we put that aside and we talk about the 3 questions everyone should ask, finding your purpose and your true identity and how our greatest struggles can be the greatest gift from which to lead!
Meet Paula Faris
Paula Faris is an Emmy-Award winning journalist, podcaster, speaker and best-selling author of “Called Out: Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs For A Life Of True Calling”.
Faris is currently the host of “The Paula Faris Podcast”. Most recently, she spent 9 years at ABC News, during which she was a co-anchor of “Good Morning America’s” weekend edition, co-host of “The View” and host of the “Journeys Of Faith” podcast. While at the network, Faris reported on everything from politics, news and entertainment to sports and faith, interviewing the likes of Hillary Clinton, Sean Spicer, Joe Biden, KellyAnne Conway, Tiger Woods, Reese Witherspoon, to the casts of “Star Wars” and “Avengers”.
Faris graduated from Cedarville University (‘97). She and her husband John reside in South Carolina with their three children.
Find out more Paula here and connect with her on Facebook, Twitter ,and Instagram.
In this episode we discuss:
The difference between your worth and your work
The 3 questions everyone should ask themselves
Give yourself permission
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR WORTH AND YOUR WORK
It has been ingrained into our workaholic society that what you do is who you are. You become the job that you perform and therefore the elevation and progression of your job status is synonymous with your maturation and development as a person. This is not true.
“I think for any leader, you can love what you do but do not allow it to define you … I had to accept that my worth wasn’t in doing and my worth wasn’t just a job and once I did that, it almost released me in a sense to branch out and try new things and it made me discover who I was as an individual.”
Basing your self-worth on things that can shift is dangerous because they naturally fluctuate. If you equate the loss of money in your bank account, or being retrenched or getting fired as a fault with yourself as a human being instead of them being shifty by nature, your emotional and mental wellbeing will dangerously plummet and put you in a spot of unnecessary turmoil.
THE 3 QUESTIONS EVERYONE SHOULD ASK THEMSELVES
What are my innate skills: what are you good at?
What am I curious about: what do you love?
What skills and proficiencies have mentors and friends recognized in me: what do those trusted people notice that you’re good at?
GIVE YOURSELF PERMISSION
“When you give yourself the permission, the next thing you have to do and anticipate is expect fear, because it can be as scary as hell to know that you’re supposed to walk into a space [wherein] you know you’re supposed to do this, you have a peace about it but it is scary and it might not make sense. We have to get used to reconciling those two feelings of “okay, I know I’m supposed to do this but I’m still scared” [because] those two things can co-exist. ”
Give yourself permission to step into and through fear, because the fear itself does not block you from your goals but your inaction, because of the presence of fear, does. Fear itself cannot harm or dissuade you, it can co-exist with action.
You can learn to be comfortable with your fear and use it to motivate you and guide you into spaces where you know that you are leaving your comfort zone and traversing new possibilities in your life.
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
Visit Paula’s website and connect with her on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
Join the Paula Faris Community on Facebook
Listen to Paula’s podcast and check out her book Called Out: Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling
The Impact Driven Leader YouTube Channel
Join the Impact Driven Leader Community
Connect with Tyler on Instagram and LinkedIn
BOOK | Called Out: Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]: Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. Glad you guys are here. Glad you're listening in to this newest episode. Real quick, what's an impact-driven leader? Well, let me tell you. An impact-driven leader is one that builds others through an understanding that we all have our shortcomings and insecurities. Today we're going to hear from our guest, Paula Faris about that.
An impact-driven leader uses their unique strengths to empower others to achieve more. An impact-driven leader, their super power is understanding that we lift others up and work together. We create a better world, a true impact. Today, we're going to break that down with Paula Faris, but before we get there, I want to give a quick shout out to my buddy Simon Aria, who's going to be joining us on the podcast. He left us a review. "Tyler's a leader. He pours into himself, he loves to serve others and is always looking to add value to others. I'm careful about where I invest my time and who the source of information I receive is. And Tyler is someone that I've gained knowledge from and is a real person with real values."
I'm excited for Simon to join us, but I'm thankful for that review. So if you guys are listening today, if you've listened to other episodes, man, I'd surely appreciate you guys leave a review so others can find this podcast, give me a rating, let me know how I'm doing. A rating as a way for us all to get better. And if I don't earn a five-star review, let me know. I want to get better. I want to be able to serve people in a bigger way.
I'm so thankful for the opportunity to chat with people like Paula Faris, who we're going to listen to in a little bit, but just to let you know, go to Impact Driven Leader podcast, get the show notes and get all sorts of great information there. There's also a link to YouTube channel where you can watch the video of these podcast interviews and get so much more information. Also jump on and be included in my weekly newsletter where I share stuff that I'm learning about, stuff that I'm learning in these interviews in real time. So before we get to it, man, I'm excited to share this book with you. This, if you're just new to the podcast is our third book in the series of Impact Driven Leader Book Club. We started off with Welcome to Management with Ryan Hawk. Last month was Change Your World with John Maxwell and this book, but honestly probably did more to impact me than any other book that I've read in the last 12 months today.
We get to talk to Paula Faris, the author of Called Out and we have fun. I told her when we started the episode, I just want to have fun. And I said, we won't talk about Michigan Football and unfortunately we went there. To give you a little context, I'm a Buckeye, I'm from Ohio, I'm a Buckeye through and through. And Buckeyes and Wolverines don't get along real well. But in this podcast, Paula and I put that aside. She is a devout Michigan fan. She credits one of her greatest interviews. She was on the View. She was a Good Morning America host. She got to interview hundreds of people, some really amazing people as you read about in the book, but Bo Schembechler was one of her greatest interviews. So that's why we talk about Ohio State, Michigan Football and we also talk about the three questions everyone should ask: What are my innate skills? What am I curious about? What skills and proficiencies have mentors and friends recognized in me?
Then we also talk about what happens in life and why it happens for a reason, finding your purpose and your true identity, and how our greatest struggles can be the greatest gift from which to lead. Those are things we unpack in this episode, but as well, it's stuff that really I got out of her book. It was really a powerful leadership book that I am so grateful to be able to share with you. I'm grateful for you to be able to share it with others. Again, take notes. I just listened to the podcast, took a whole lot more notes. I hope you get value out of that.
[TYLER]: My hope today is that we have fun and if nothing else that we can, furthermore call each for their friends.
[PAULA FARIS]: Always.
[TYLER]: I know we have mutual friends, several mutual friends. I'm not going to talk about Michigan Football. I'm not going to do it. I promise I won't do that to you.
[PAULA]: Please don't.
[TYLER]: Yeah, you know what you guys ---
[PAULA]: Do we have to already go there. Tyler, come on.
[TYLER]: I just want to make sure that we put it out of the way? I mean, just put it to the side and make sure that we don't have to. I mean, they didn't lose to Ohio State this year. So be thankful for that, right?
[PAULA]: Well, because they didn't play Ohio State, but I guarantee you, Ohio State ---
[TYLER]: I didn't go there.
[PAULA]: Oh, listen, I'm a realist. So Ohio State probably would have hung 80 points on Michigan this year and it was a disappointing season. And then they resigned Jim Harbaugh to a five-year extension, which is a little mind boggling, but I'm an optimist so there's always next year.
[TYLER]: How do you feel about that? Let's talk about that. How do you feel about them resigning Harbaugh?
[PAULA]: No, I cannot go, well, I loved it when they initially signed Harbaugh, but was it six, seven years ago?
[TYLER]: Yes.
[PAULA]: But they can't beat Ohio State and if you are unfamiliar with the rivalry, Michigan and Ohio State are bitter rivals and have been. And Ohio State won I think 14 out of the last 15 matchups. If you can't beat Ohio State, you might as well hand in your pink slip. They can't beat Ohio State. They haven't beat Ohio State under Jim Harbaugh. And he was supposed to be the savior that was going to take them out of the desolate desert and finally beat Ohio State and he hasn't been able to do it. So I know it's just sports, but for me, it's my childhood. It's my life. I love Michigan Football. I can't help it. It's a thorn in my side though, for sure.
[TYLER]: I am a Buckeye. I don't know if you've realized that, but I am, and when they signed Harbaugh, I was happy. So moving along ---
[PAULA]: When they resigned Harbaugh or when they signed him?
[TYLER]: When they resigned Harbaugh, I was kind of like good. You know, he hasn't figured out how to beat them yet. Michigan needs to beat Ohio State just for the rivalry to stay intact. I mean, when you've beat them twice in 20 years, it's not a rivalry anymore. It just, they have to. So I have to concede at some point, Michigan needs to beat Ohio State for the sanctity of the rivalry.
[PAULA]: For the betterment of the rivalry. Yes. So, okay. All right.
[TYLER]: I mean, okay.
[PAULA]: Let's talk about something that you like Tyler.
[TYLER]: I'd like to get into the topic. Let's talk about, yeah, let's talk about, I'd love to talk about you, your book, your experiences, and so real quick, let me kind of jump in here. I would be honest, I didn't watch a lot of The View but I knew you were obviously a co-host there, GMA all of that. I got to know you through the global leadership summit and I kind of want to kick off there and saying to me, I saw tremendous value out of your book.
[PAULA]: Thank you.
[TYLER]: And I probably saw it different than maybe a lot of your readers, obviously as a man you kind of really, from a female perspective as you are, which I think is phenomenal. I am married, I have sisters, I've actually recommended the book to both of my sisters, my wife, my mother-in-law, a lot of people.
[PAULA]: Thank you.
[TYLER]: And one of the things that I saw great value out of it is this concept of leadership. And that's what this podcast is about, is about empowering leaders, helping leaders grow. For me, it's from insecurities and then values that we'll get into. But how do you, obviously being involved in global leadership summit, see your journey and being able to share that as a service to people?
[PAULA]: Well, I just think like, to him, who much is given much is expected and also if you're faithful with the little, you'll be faithful with a lot. I feel like God gives us each our own message. And one thing that I really appreciate about the global leadership summit is the philosophy, as you can learn from anyone. You don't have to be a bonafide leader to be a leader because we all have influence. And leaders have influence. I just feel like God gave me this message. God allowed what transpired in my life to happen for a reason. I don't have any regrets. I don't necessarily question it anymore. I couldn't say that at the time, but I feel like God gave me this message that he wanted me to share it. And that's why I wrote the book. I've never in my, I'm 45 years old, Tyler. I never wanted to write a book.
In fact, friends that had approached me about writing books, I said, "I don't have anything to say." And other friends had said, "Don't do it. It's the worst experience of your life?" So I never, this wasn't an aspiration in my book, but then a couple of years ago when I stepped away from the view and I stepped away from Good Morning America weekend, and I realized, I didn't know who I was outside of work. I didn't know who I was anymore outside of these titles. God gave me this message to write. And I really felt at that point, he said, I want you to write about it. I want you to share this message with others about really digging in and finding your purpose and finding your true calling that doesn't shift and shake in pandemic, knowing who you are outside of what you do, knowing the parts of you that aren't going to shift and shape.
And so I really wanted to, I just, I don't know. I feel like we each have our unique gifts and talents and we each have our unique story and I want to share my story to help empower and equip and encourage and inspire other people. I feel like I gave, allowed these things to happen for a reason so that I could help other people. And I feel a deep visceral responsibility to share and advocate for others and champion other people.
[TYLER]: Wow. Your book touched me a lot in that did too. And I'll share this. I feel we each go through journeys and as I was, I kind of mentioned to you, I re-listened to your book yesterday and today crammed through it, which is great. It was fun, but I kept thinking about Joseph and how each of us go through that experience of Joseph, where we're thrown into a well. If you aren't familiar with the Biblical story, that's fine. But you know, Joseph was led to a lot of places in life he didn't think he was supposed to be, and ultimately was massively used. And you mentioned something I'm going to, I don't think I've ever shared this and I'll share it right now. So when I was 14, I had a brother that died and two, maybe three years ago I had this just revelation that came over me.
It's like, if you had the power to go back and change it, would you? And I said, "No," because I wouldn't be able to tell the story that I'm able to tell now. And when you just shared that, it made me think of that again. It's getting hit in the head of the side of the head with an Apple, to having a head on collision to having the miscarriages that you talked about, the struggles in marriage, all of those things are to me, your Joseph's story and seeing the opportunity to say, "Hey all of those things make me give me the unique view to help people recognize things." That's why I think this is a leadership book.
[PAULA]: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. You know, and I think I've had to embrace that. I've had to embrace that aspect because when God gave me this message, I really felt like God just kind of released me and unleashed me to help other people through it. And that's my ultimate goal at the end of the day.
[TYLER]: Yeah, I mean you know, as I've been in business really the last 12 man, 10, 12 years in a very heavy female industry, and I see this book that you've written and it's like, "Oh, I didn't understand the challenges that most women in work really fall under this identity, this kind of social standard that they're trying to uphold. But yet then I realized a lot of men do too, when they're just, it's born out of a lot of insecurity. And you talk about that, some in your book, some of your insecurities, how do you feel as say someone that is a voice for women that you've created yourself to be because of your exposure, but then in a granular sense for someone that's leading. That you're sitting down with someone in a leadership capacity and say, "How can they be more empathetic to people they work with so they can go through this process and not feeling like they're trying to achieve just to have an identity."
[PAULA]: Yeah, well, I think unfortunately the issue really stems with our culture, Tyler. The first time you meet somebody, you say, "What's your name and what do you do?" So it's baked into our nomenclature. It's baked into our narrative. It's baked into society and to culture that our worth is only in doing, that our value is just vocation and that our calling has to be our career. And unfortunately that then trickles down to our children and they get that same message. What do you want to do when you grow up as if that's the only thing they're ever going to bring to the table? Now, for me, the book isn't about like how to walk away from a career. The book is about finding and uncovering the parts of you that won't shift and shape. It's about finding your true purpose and your true calling.
Okay, who are you outside of what you do? There's nothing wrong with loving what you do, but being defined by it is dangerous. For me, I was completely defined by my title. I was defined by my job. I was addicted to work. I was a workaholic and it was all at the expense of my family. And so I had to ask myself a couple of questions. Were the choices that I was making professionally and personally really clashing with my values? And yes, they were. I said I was one thing. I said what was important, but the way that that was manifesting itself in my life was total contradiction. And the other question was I finding significance in something that was going to shift inevitably? Absolutely. My job. And so many of us misplace our significance and things that will shift whether it's a job or whether it's our status on social media or whether it's how much money we have stashed in our mattress or in our bank account. That's all going to shift. Okay.
So I was placing my significance in something that was going to shift. And so I needed to find out the parts of me and I think for any leader, you can love what you do. Do not allow it to define you, all right? Except that I had to accept that my worth wasn't in doing and my worth wasn't just in job and once I did that, God then almost released me in a sense to branch out and to try new things. And it made me discover who I was as an individual. I think so often we're so focused on the doing, what we do for a living, what do we want to do? What's my calling? What's my career? And we don't really ask ourselves, like, "Who do I want to be? Who do I, what kind of person do I want to be? What are the parts of me that won't shift and shake?"
And so just really digging into that and asking yourself again what are you good at? What do you love and what do trusted people notice that you're good at and you love? I think that those are three questions you can ask to, any leader should really embrace those three questions. Those three questions help you uncover and peel back the layers and find out the parts of you and your unique talents, your gifts. It's not just the way that it's, it's not that you're a great engineer or you're a great doctor. It's peel back those layers. What are you good at? What do you love and what do trusted people notice that you're good at? And that too for me, I'm curious, I ask questions. I like to champion and challenge people.
My nickname was Paula 20 Questions. I had professors and teachers speaking life into that. It just so happened that the curiosity and the question asking manifested itself into broadcasting. But then I bought that lie that I had to be this one thing forever. I had to be a broadcaster forever. And when I put all my eggs in that basket and was following my "career," and I got burnt out and I said God was calling me out of that, I didn't know who I was outside of it. So really for me, digging into my curiosity, my question asking and champion and challenging other people, that's who I am as an individual. And I can use those talents and gifts on a myriad of vocational branches. Again, the doing changes, but who you are doesn't change. So I know without a doubt who I am and the parts of me that won't shift and shake.
And that A, has helped me realize my true worth. It's helped release me to try new things and to branch out and to be brave. So just the way that it's manifesting itself in my life right now, I'm not at ABC anymore, but I'm using those gifts of curiosity. The question asking, my desire to champion people, to challenge people in different capacities. I'm going to be launching a company that's really about celebrating, supporting, and empowering women using those gifts in that arena. I'm not a business person, but I ask questions and I like to champion people. So, it's released me from that lie that I have to be one thing for the rest of my life, and it's released me from the lie that my worth is just at work. So I think leadership, we have to be able to dig into those parts and help those around us dig into the parts of them that don't shift and shake. We need to encourage one another, we need to ask the right questions, not what do you want to do, but who do you want to be .and asking the right questions to uncover, because that's your true purpose. That's who you are. That's never going to shift and shake in crisis. The doing well, but who you are inherently, who God created you to be is not going to change it. So you need to dig into that, especially in times like this, that we're going through.
[TYLER]: Wow. I love that. I love that because that speaks to you know, the journey that I've walked through as I mentioned a little bit in careers, changing careers and one of the things that happened to you that happened to me as well. I didn't have it show up on page six, but I did have people in the industry and coworkers kind of slam me. There was a time where we had just moved to Spokane, Washington where we live now and I had taken a job. And one of my former coworkers called my new boss and pretty much told him what he thought of me and how I was dying on the vine and I had no value to bring. And the guy who I was working for just happened to let me listen into the call.
And I know you went through a lot of that and, obviously people sharing about your changes in life and yet they didn't know the whole story. How do we, again, as leaders, and I think you do such a great job of talking about the purpose and how that came, but the responsibility in the world to say, "Hey, we need to allow people to grow and not force them into this box because that's what career labels say they should be." How do you feel you're really stepping forward as you talk about to be that example. How do you see yourself doing that?
[PAULA]: Well, I mean, I think just being that example is kind of, is living it out. I've refused to believe that I have to be one thing for the rest of my life. I refuse to believe that my value is only in a job. I believe that I have unique talents and gifts that God has given me and He can use those on any vocational branch in any vocational season. But again, my identity is not tied into that. I'm a curious person who asks questions and likes to champion and challenge people. I'm a wife and a mom and a Jesus lover. That's my purpose. That's who I am now.
[TYLER]: Can I ask you a question?
[PAULA]: Yeah.
[TYLER]: What's your Enneagram? Do you?
[PAULA]: I'm an eight. I know it can be, I can be a tough girl. I'm an eight, a female eight is the direct number, but if you want something done, you come to me because I'll get it done.
[TYLER]: You know what, my wife would say a male eight. Well, I think that's why I appreciate it because I as an eight as well what, and I, sorry for cutting off, but that just, as you say, everything to me that encompasses who you are. And that's okay. It doesn't mean it has to define you, but I think when you talk about your opportunity to move forward and push into places where people are like, "No, no, no, it should be this way." It's like, "Nope, it doesn't have to." We could do better and I think that's where a healthy eight and as you're getting healthier and more confident in who we are as an eight, myself is, that's when all of a sudden we become powerful and not offensive.
[PAULA]: Exactly, it's a fine line too, because my husband tells me often. He says, "You can be a lot to handle." And I know I can. Um, and I think just understanding more about myself the five love language from the five love languages to the Enneagram and understanding what makes us tick. Those are all useful tools to help you understand yourself more and also understand how you are perceived. But I've learned to embrace it. I've learned to embrace who I am, and I want to help and equip and empower other people to embrace that. Like we just, we need to push back against these lies that we've been told. And you know, the way that we do that is living differently. It's asking different questions. It's refusing to believe that our worth is just one thing.
So, this new season of, this entrepreneurial season, I don't know how long that's going to last, but I'm not defined by it. And then when I'm called to do something else, vocationally, that no longer is part of my introduction, it's not, "Hi, I'm Paula and I'm an entrepreneur and a podcaster or an author." I say, "Hey, I'm Paula and I am a wife, I'm a mom, I love Jesus, I'm curious, I ask questions, and I like to champion and challenge people. That's who I am." And that's who I'm going to be in 20 years and that's who I'm going to be when I'm six feet under. But the doing and the different arenas where that's going to manifest itself are going to change. And I have given myself the permission.
And that's the thing. We have to give ourselves the permission to branch out and try new things. And when you give yourself the permission, the next thing you have to do is expect and anticipate fear, because it can be scary as hell to know that you're supposed to walk into a space that you know you're supposed to do this, you have a peace about it, but it is scary and it might not make sense. So we have to get used to reconciling those two feelings of, "Okay, I know I'm supposed to do this. I have a peace of it, but I'm still scared." And those two things can coexist. For me so long, I thought, especially in the faith circles, oh, if you experience fear, that's the spirit telling you that you're not supposed to do it, or there's something wrong with you, or I'm supposed to be healed of fear, or I'm supposed to be cured of it and if I have fear, I'm a bad person.
Well, that's a lie. Expect and anticipate fear. God mentions fear hundreds and hundreds of times in the Bible. And in Joshua, I love, this is one of my life verses, Joshua 1:9, "Have I not commanded you to be strong and to be courageous? Don't be afraid. Don't be discouraged for the Lord your God's with you everywhere you go." And that right there, it tells us a couple of things. A don't be afraid and don't be discouraged. That's God recognizing that fear is present. He's recognizing that we're going to experience it and then he is, "Have I not commanded you Tyler, to be strong?" God is commanding us to be strong. It's not just a suggestion. It's not, now God's commanding us. He acknowledges fears there, He commands us to be strong, and then He promises that He's going to be there. He promises that He's going to be there, but it's up to us to take that step of faith.
And I liken it to like when we know we're supposed to do something, we're too scared to take that step, or we take that step and it's super scary and we have that fear, it's like, we get paralyzed. And we're like, "But I don't know. I need God to do something. I need God to move." And it's not until you move that, you really know where you're supposed to go. I liken it to that example. If you've ever put an address into your GPS or to your phone or ways or Google Maps or whatever type of tracking apparatus, you have navigation apparatus, you have, you know how, like when you're first starting out, it's like, "I don't know where you are. I don't know if I need to take a left or a right."
You need to start moving. And then it figures out. That's exactly how it is with that. We know that God wants us to take a step, but we have to start driving and once we start moving, then we figure, then we can see the route. We know we're supposed to take a left out of here or right out of here, but it's up to us.
[TYLER]: Yes, totally.
[PAULA]: We're commanded to step through it and we're committed to start moving. So, I know it's a random analogy, but all I can think about when I ---
[TYLER]: Well, here's what's funny is I've used that myself too. I totally get it. I use it. and because it is so intuitive, you move, you have no idea which way to go. And it's that stepping out in it's one of the things that you want to kind of ask is like have this, this, this, especially in a world, that's trying to tell you what you should and could be. It's realizing, huh. Well, I need to step in fear and trust that and make that trust and know that even if it isn't necessarily the right direction, because go back to that GPS example. And I love it. Is if you come out of your driveway and you turn right, unless it's a dead end which maybe you get turned around, you could ultimately go that way. It's just a scenic route.
I have a friend, his name is Don Yaeger, and Don shared this with me and it was great. He goes, "Tyler, every time I drive to a point, I take a different route." He goes, "Because I want to see something different." And I come back to that in this example, it's like, how often, especially in a career? If you are a journalist or I went to school, I got an animal science degree, I was a nutritionist for dairy cows and here I am talking to ---
[PAULA]: See? Look at that.
[TYLER]: Random and I love this. And it's yet, if I look at all the different skills that God has given me through this journey, then it lines up exactly what I'm doing, but with such a different viewpoint that I can use those skills to challenge, to say, "Wait a second. Why is it like this?" And going back. If everyone follows the exact same path to be a podcaster or an entrepreneur, a journalist, an eye doctor, an HR director, whatever it may be, then they're not, in my opinion, going to be more empathetic to the people they work with. Because I believe that God took me through the journey of growing up on a farm to going to school in New York to ending up California and now Washington to give me all these different experiences so I could learn to be more empathetic because I wasn't. And I realized the ability for me to help people, which I'm hearing from you as well is you had to get past your insecurities to say, "Hey, God made me for this purpose and I need to be empathetic towards others because I wasn't maybe shown that empathy by other coworkers saying, "Hey, it has to be this way, or you'd be stupid to step away. You'd be stupid to look for your family first."
It was through that I was able to better serve people and say, "Hey, you have a tremendous gift." Paula, I'm going to tell you, you have a tremendous story and gift to tell people as someone that people wouldn't appreciate it. And I didn't know anything about your new business, but I was going to ask you about it. I'm super excited about that because I know the world from which I live in that people need that. And they need that from somebody that's saying, "Hey, you don't have to be what they want you to be to fill a box."
[PAULA]: That's right.
[TYLER]: If you're you and so free in you, that's, what's special. I'm going to tie this in. I know you've given me a lot of time and I'm so appreciative, but one of the things that's been impressed upon me and I think this is what I sense in you, the season you're in, which was probably a real identity challenge the last 24 months. But I have a mentor that actually his podcast just heard last month, John Maxwell and talked to them. And one of the things that he impressed upon me is it's more important to be revered by your family than anyone else.
[PAULA]: Absolutely. Absolutely.
[TYLER]: As you're sitting here today, Paula, how is that important to you, to your three children who ironically are about the same age as mine, who you're Douglas as the same name as my youngest. I can relate to so many of those. How is it important for you and your husband to model what you're going through in life so that way they can have different experiences?
[PAULA]: Well, it really hit me, when I was writing my book, my dad passed away and I dedicated my book to my father. My father was a brilliant man. He was an electrical engineer, had multiple opportunities to move up the corporate ladder, and he made his decisions based on the type of person that he wanted to be. He wanted to be home. He wanted to be there for dinner at 5:30 every night. He wanted to spend time with his family. He wanted to sell into others and that was a choice. And that was a sacrifice that he made from moving up the corporate ladder. When he was dying and he had a, I write about it. It was a very long torturous death. He had a stroke, a debilitating stroke, and basically starved to death with a feeding tube.
He was intubated for four months. He passed away in February of 2019, but my father from August when he suffered a stroke until February, when he passed away and went home, he was surrounded by friends and family. And it was such a witness and a testimony to the nursing home, to the facility where he was, where some people would get one visitor a month, but that was the type of life my dad lived. He sowed into other people, he was imperfect, of course, like we all are, but he knew who he was and he knew the parts of that wouldn't shift and shake. And he knew what his true purpose was. And that was, for him, it was to be a loving father and husband and to sow into his community and show people the light of Jesus, no matter where he was.
So I'll never forget the last conversation I had with my father. And this has really kind of been the inspiration for this, for who I want to be right now and for the rest of my life. This was Saturday before he passed away. He passed away the day after Valentine's day in 2019, and he was crying as he would cry often because of the pain that he was in. His body was shutting down and I said, I had to ask him virtually closed ended questions because he couldn't speak from the stroke. I said, "Daddy, are you crying right now because you're sad." And he shook his head, "No." And I said, "Daddy, are you crying because you're in pain?" And he shook his head, "No." And I said, "Daddy, are you crying because you're overwhelmed by the love and the memories and the people that are in this room and the life that you lived?" And he nodded at his head, "Yes."
And to be able to live like that and to know that death is knocking and to have no regrets and to be so overwhelmed with emotion for the life that you were given and the life that you lived and knowing what was important, that's what I want out of my life. And that's what I want for my children. That's what we want. It's one of the reasons why I left [inaudible 00:21:11], I moved to a rural area in South Carolina. We have made sacrifices, but we we're branching out, we're following a call on our life that we feel God has placed and embracing this new change and this new season, but the piece that we have in our spirit, we want to be an example. And we want to sow into what's important.
There's no indication on my dad's gravestone of what he did for a living. None. It's that he a loving father, a loving husband, and jid [foreign] which is Arabic for grandfather. This type of life I live, I want to live, and it's inspired from my dad. And I just think what's most important, I also have an analogy I like to apply to most situations and I call it my front porch mentality, Tyler. Whenever I'm faced with a decision, whether it's big or small, but it's a consequential decision and I'm toiling, I like to fast forward to my front porch when I'm about 70 years old, I'm sipping some sort of choice beverage, but I'm sitting on my front porch and I, in that moment, I'm looking back at the moment I'm in right now.
"How would my 70 year old self make this decision?" So I try to live in that foresight of my front porch and my front porch mentality. How would my 70 year old self make the decision that I am struggling with right now? And that gives me a lot of clarity and it's helped me to refocus on what's most important.
[TYLER]: Man, well thank you for sharing that. I think you would say that the, because you shared a little bit in your book that your dad had to come to that revelation and part of that was his faith changing and growing as you have, as I can say, I've paralleled that. But one of the things that I think is unique and I haven't very often heard people say that one of the things that's happened for me ever since I was 14, 15 years old is always thinking what would my kids think? What would my grandchildren think? Kind of like that 70-year-old yourself sitting on a porch. How that can be when you, when you lean into it, and when you take time to focus there can be really grounding. And man, I love you sharing that because again, I can relate, but I think it is ---
[PAULA]: Absolutely. It's great. It's all about perspective.
[TYLER]: Yeah, and it really comes into that legacy. And as opposed to identity being tied up into a career, it's, what's that legacy? How do you want to create an impact? And one of the things, I'm just going to wrap up on this is you talk a lot about values. John Maxwell, he shared in a book in this book club about values, values are important. You recognized, and you've made the comment that what you were professing as values weren't the choices that you were making. How do you feel as a leader today? It's important to be vulnerable about the, like you are vulnerable. I was professing values, but I wasn't living them. And how do we need to be vocal in our society to say, "Hey, we need to have values and live by those. Establish those." And that's what's important.
[PAULA]: Well, I think leading by example. And I think there is such power in vulnerability. Vulnerability is not weakness. Vulnerability is strength and you have to set that example as a leader. I want to set that example as a leader that I'm not perfect and I don't expect perfection and that it's okay to not be okay. It is okay to not be okay. And that I want to extend that same grace to others that has been so undeservedly extended to me. So living in that, living in the vulnerability, living in the grace, living in the imperfection, embracing where we are, but it starts with us. It doesn't start with pointing the fingers. Change always starts with us. It starts with me, it starts with you, it starts with taking the initiative to be the type of person that you want to be and be the type of person that you want others to be. It starts with us. And once you embrace that, it's very, very empowering.
[TYLER]: I love it. Paula, thank you so much for giving me your time, for sharing, for the podcast. I'm excited to learn more about what's coming. Maybe you can be able to come back and share that with people in some way, but again your journey is a story that needs to be told in a leadership capacity, and I think it's important. That's why I loved your book, shared it with so many, glad to share it with so many more.
[PAULA]: Thank you.
[TYLER]: And I can't thank you enough.
[PAULA]: Thank you so much for the support. I appreciate the conversation, Tyler.
[TYLER]: All right. I'm not sure if you caught that. We're just wrapping up, but remember, I didn't bring it to Paula to talk about Michigan Football. I said, we don't have to go there and yet she went there. I hope you got a laugh out of that. And really I, so thankfully enjoyed this time too, to sit down and talk with Paula. Again, I've shared this book with a lot of people and I continue to share, and I'm grateful to share it here in the platform. Maybe you would never have heard of this book. Now there's a lot of spiritual context in that. I'm a person of faith, Paula is a person of faith, but I want you to really get the nuts and bolts out of it. The fact that we're all here for a purpose and part of it is what is our legacy going to be? As she challenged me, as she challenged all of you listening, what is going to be your legacy?
Do you have a front porch vision? I'd love for you to share that with me. I'd love to be able to share that again with Paula and let her know what that vision is for you. The biggest takeaway for me as well is vulnerability is not a weakness. This is something that took me a long time as enneagram eight, as a person, trying to find my own value. It's okay to not be okay as she said, and change starts with us. If you listened to the podcast with John Maxwell, you heard him say that too. And I love how both of these guests backed it up.
So again, go. Wherever you're listening to this, rate, review, give me some feedback, help me deliver more value to more people. Check out the show notes at the impactdrivenleaderpodcast.com website. Go check out stuff on YouTube, interact with me on social media. Probably Instagram and LinkedIn are where I spend my most time. And man, I am so grateful. You took a few minutes out of your day to listen to this interview with Paula. She added value to my life. I surely hope she added value to your life. If you want to dig deeper, learn more about what's in this book, come join our book club. Come join the round table. There's plenty of room. Go to my website, the Impact Driven Leader podcast website, tylerdickerhoof.com. Find out all sorts of information, how to join. Thanks again, until next time.
