IDL113 Season 3: 16 Laws of Communication with Mark Cole
What is the true key to communication? Why are questions a powerful and effective tool in communication? How can you continually bring value to those around you and become a great leader?
Today I’m delighted to be sharing with you from John Maxwell’s book, The 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication. I’m joined by Mark Cole, the CEO, and next generation leader of the John Maxwell company. What I love about our conversation is that we reflect on what it’s like to share the experience of being impacted by a leader and their content.
Meet Mark Cole
Mark Cole serves as the CEO of all John Maxwell Companies and has more than 25 years of leadership and team development experience, which uniquely qualifies him to have an integral role and be the champion of the John C. Maxwell brand. He is committed to adding value to individual leaders and leadership teams. Mark has experience in both the non-profit and for-profit sectors, and he has led companies through economic challenges, growth barriers, and disconnected team dynamics.
Mark has learned team development from the world’s leading source of expertise: John C. Maxwell. Mark has worked more closely with John than anyone else in the world and brings exclusive access to John’s real time principles to the Team. Mark delivers time tested leadership principles ranging from personal leadership to multi-corporation leadership. He resources leaders to develop those around them, ensuring teams are working to their highest potential.
Find out more about Mark Cole and connect on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
Connection is what truly boosts communication - 04:24
The key to good communication - 12:30
The power of asking questions in communication - 15:43
Use communication to bring value - 33:48
Connection is what truly boosts communication
“How you say it and how it is heard is much more important than what you say and how it sticks. ”
How a person makes you feel is more important – and more impactful – than what you say.
You can express encouragement and say that you value them, but if your words do not reach your actions or your behavior, then they are not believed or trusted.
“When we try to communicate to impress people rather than impress on people, we are now getting into an area where we’re trying to put on something that is not natural to us, and guess what, everybody knows it. ”
If you want to communicate, you have to connect. You connect with people by creating a space of vulnerability and accountability and trust through your authentic, genuine actions.
Then – only then – do your words begin to have power, once people feel safe and respected and seen by you and your actions.
The key to good communication
“To me, the key [to] communication, and this is something that I’ve taken and [that] I’ve learned, is, “Don’t try to present. Just have a conversation.” ”
Do not try to present something to someone as if you need to convince them. You won’t need to spend hours of energy convincing the right people.
When you are authentic, when you show up, and when you are honest about your work and your mission, the right people will be drawn to you.
Have a conversation with them like the people that we all are, and connect with them on that human level, because that is the foundation of everything around us.
The power of asking questions in communication
“When you learn the discipline of asking questions, you learn the discipline of [how to] stop talking so that someone else can catch up with you or – more importantly – so that you can catch up with them. ”
This is the next level in the process. When you communicate, value connection. Once you have that connection, strengthen it through having a discussion, not a presentation. After your discussion, ask questions.
Questions are a great tool that you can use to understand how much or how well someone has understood you, and they can show you whether you understand your audience or not.
Are they hearing you? Are you speaking directly to their needs and desires? Where is the middle ground between you two?
Use communication to bring value
“When you learn the discipline of asking questions, you learn the discipline of [how to] stop talking so that someone else can catch up with you or – more importantly – so that you can catch up with them. ”
Use your communication to inspire hope. Let people know – and feel – that they can inspire greatness within themselves.
That is also what makes a leader, someone that inspires and guides change for the better in the people around them.
“If you can communicate value, hope, and significance in the hearts and lives of as many people as possible, you’re going to be a great communicator because that’s what everybody wants. ”
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
BOOK | John C. Maxwell – The 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication: Apply Them and Make the Most of Your Message
BOOK | John C. Maxwell – Everyone Communicates, Few Connect: What the Most Effective People Do Differently
Check out Mark Cole’s profile and connect on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
Awaken the Leader Workshop April 3rd and 4th 2023: theimpactdrivenleader.com
Sign up for the roundtable at: hello@theimpactdrivenleader.com
Check out the Practice Of the Practice
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
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Too many times, communicators are most concerned with what they want to say rather than what the audience is hearing.
Mark Cole
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]
Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. Man, I am so excited to be with you today, sharing from this book, The 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication, for whom John Maxwell conversation today is with Mark Cole. Mark is the now owner, the next generation, the baton bearer of the Maxwell companies. He's the CEO, longtime CEO but he's also communicator. He's a great friend. He's also peer of mine. You'll hear about that in a sense that we're on this path of growing, his older brother. What I love about our conversation is not that here it is the author, but yet here's someone who along with yourself and myself, it's being impacted by the content. Mark shares about that. We talk about how we're both have been impacted on this content.
And this is what I want to encourage you with today. No matter if you think you're a leader or not, if you're listening to this podcast, you're either someone who aspires to leadership or just has to listen to it because maybe it's fun and enjoyable, that's great. I love that. Appreciate it. Share this with someone else. But also, if you're leading any capacity, whether that's a family, whether that is just any position, communication is imperative. Communication is so imperative in our world, that is probably one of the greatest areas of focus for any person, much less leader. The person that can communicate better, accomplishes more plain and simple in one area that I want to tease you with, that Mark and I talked so much about, now, you've heard me talk about it before and through this conversation, I understand even more why it's so impactful, connected. You're going to hear about that, you're going to hear about so much more in this conversation with Mark Cole. I'll come back at the end, we'll wrap it up and make sure to give you a special invite. Prepare for it. Excited. Thanks again for being here. I'll catch you back at the end.
[TYLER]
Mark, Man, it's so good to see you. I'm so excited for this conversation and especially that we get to talk about John's latest project, his book, The 16 Undeniable Laws of Communication. You've been such a great example to me, but also speaking belief into me as someone, as a communicator who's growing in communication and I'm excited to talk about that and just have a conversation about communication.
[MARK COLE]
Well, it's funny because you and I both would be sons. Forgive those of you that see Tyler with this incredible successful business, a great dad in and of himself but Tyler and I really are sons in the form of leadership of John Maxwell. We call him Papa John sometime. Tyler, you and I have been students, that's probably a more a recognizable word but we've been students of John Maxwell in his communication way before podcast. To watch you today in your podcast to where you were in the first podcast, and to watch you as a communicator, as I've seen you on stages, in group settings, truly, it's almost like we're a product of the product. I'm glad John finally quit teaching us and started writing a book about how to communicate because everything he's been teaching us for years and it's actually paying off, is actually in this book. So I love sitting here and getting to talk to you about it.
[TYLER]
Well, I appreciate that. As I think back that is, yeah, it's been five, six years ago since you and I did a previous podcast and a couple hundred episodes later. For yourself as a podcast, guest host and guest and doing all those things, one thing that I find that we just spent a few minutes doing, we talked about family, you talk, asked about us on the trip that we just took. I saw this and when I got to the law about connection, it was like, yes, of course and as I flip it back through the book and the notes and think back about the book, Everyone Communicates Few Connect, to me, it's all about connection. It really is. It can't, if that's a word that just summarizes everything about communication, its connection, but I want to know this, what from your perspective has changed the most for you connecting when you communicate that allows you to communicate better?
[MARK]
Well, and this is for your podcast community that would not know me. I've been with John for 23 years, and if you don't know John, let me take one step back even further. I know you referenced him a lot, Tyler, but for those who may be tuning in for the first time, John's a prolific teacher, a prolific writer, but a brilliant beyond comparison communicator. Now, here's what that means to me. This is a little bit of a home spun definition for sure but I think a lot of people are great teachers and great instructors from stage. But John Maxwell takes communicating to the next level, and it's in this word connection. And Tyler, if I could tell you the thing that I've learned the most, the thing that I feel like has been the most impressionable on me in my own communication, watching you communicate and certainly being a student of John for 23 years, is the importance of connection from stage in a boardroom in a one-on-one relationship.
That how you say it and how it is heard is much more poor than what you say and how it sticks. Because stickability, let me illustrate, how many of you can think of a grade school teacher right now that impacted you? For me, it's Ms. Richardson. Ms. Richardson was a great, she taught me multiplication, she taught me when to use a com. She did not teach me how to speak good English. Just listen to me. So that's not Ms. Richardson's fault. My parents okay, raised me in the South, so what you get is what you get. Don't pitch a fit. But Ms. Richardson taught me a ton. But you know what, it's not about what Ms. Richardson taught me. It's how she made me feel. It's how important.
I'll remember this, Tyler, I don't know if you've ever heard me tell the story, but while I was in third grade, Ms. Richardson had her first baby, and she named her baby, I'll tell you to this day, what the name of her baby was, it was Matthew. Now I'm a person of faith. Ms. Richardson was a person of faith. She said, Mark, I just got to tell you, when I named my son, I thought of you. There's Matthew, and then there's Mark. For the rest of Matthew's life, I'll think about teaching you here in third grade. Now, I don't remember exactly what she taught me on multiplication, English, science, social studies and all that, but I'll tell you how she made me feel when she shared with me that she had connected me with her firstborn son.
And Tyler, that's how you do, that's how you connect with people. That's certainly what I've understood from John and for my own ability to communicate, connecting is all about being comfortable in your own skin. Tyler, you were around me when I first started communicating on John's stages. I've been running John's companies for years. I've been a proven leader for years when he finally said, you need to start communicating, and Tyler, you can attest to this, it was atrocious. One of the reasons it was atrocious is because I was uncomfortable communicating on John Maxwell's stage because I felt to communicate on John Maxwell's stage, I need to communicate like John Maxwell, not like Mark Cole. If I give you ---
[TYLER]
Can I get you to pause there? , Yeah, go ahead, Tyler.
[TYLER]
How much of that as you look back actually affects a tremendous amount of emerging leaders? Meaning, oh, if I can't do it like John in your case, well, then I'm not going to be good enough. If it's the leader that's listening right now, it's like, well, I look at the example of the generation beyond me or what I view as the generation of leader, and I need to speak like them, act like them, decide like them move like them, and we try to be a robot, a mimic of them and we end up feeling like this doesn't feel right, that's a problem.
[MARK]
It is, it is. I think it's a problem. I think it's a problem for all of us that are communicators. Again, don't just think stage presence, but when we try to communicate to impress people rather than impress on people, we are now getting into an area to where we're trying to put on something that is not natural to us. And guess what? Everybody knows it. You're not faking anybody out. But when a communicator is authentic, a communicator speaks from the heart, it impresses people, even if they don't get the right conjugation.
[TYLER]
Here's the feeling I have there. And I believe our world is looking for this more and more. It's exampled through social media. It is the don't be so polished that you seem fake because if you look fake, then I don't believe you because it's too good to be true. Be real. I was like, oh, yeah, that's, it's why improv? It's why live taping and the edits and don't edit. I try not to edit the show. Why? Because I want people to realize, hey, just be you and be comfortable in that instead of being so rehearsed that it seems fake. Yet leaders fall into that trap and they feel like, ooh, if I'm not perfectly polished, then I'm not good enough to lead, or I'm not good enough to communicate. I don't have enough value to bring.
We fall into this trap of imposter. We fall into this trap of insecurities and we try to push through it rather than just embrace. It's like our mutual friend, Brad Lanek shared with me years and years ago. He goes, stand in front of the room, throw your arms up in the air and say, hey, I got sweaty pits. It's why I wear black shirts. Okay, you can't see it. Maybe you can't see it. But it's when we position ourself in that sense, then all of a sudden it, again, a person of faith, you throw your arms in the air like this. You're not offensive to anyone. It's like, hey, I'm looking for help. It's please give me help. I'm praising and people gravitate to that rather than as he shared with me or this idea of this perfect, that's perfectly polished. That just seems okay, can I trust them?
[MARK]
Well, and you know what's interesting, John said, tells the story in his book, I think the, I think God, John's greatest admirable trait as a communicator. And again, there's a lot in this book that'll tell you what to admire about John and other great communicators that's impacted all of our podcast listeners. But one of the greatest attributes of John's communication, in my opinion, is his conversational style. You feel like everybody else is an obnoxious intrusion into yours in John's conversation, when he is given a speech to 5,000 people. Why did the other 4,999 show up to mine and John's conversation. That's what we love about John. He's conversational. Where he learned conversation was him being comfortable in his own skin. Here's the story. John spoke from a lec from a, from a from a stand, most all of his communication, but somewhere around 50, 52, I believe it was, he fell, no, he pulled his back out and he could not communicate that day standing up.
So he sat on a stool and realized how taking a seat made people feel like they should lean in to have a conversation with. Now, there's a lot of people now that have different postures. Almost speaking now is as much presentation as it is content, how we present ourselves, how we move our arms, how we throw our hands up as Brad Lanek talked about. John figured out not whether you sit in a chair, whether you don't try to, don't try to do what John is. What it impressed upon John more than anything was now he was having a conversation, not giving a speech. So, John, whether he stands up ---
[TYLER]
That's the key.
[MARK]
That's the key.
[TYLER]
That's the key to me. The, the key in communication is, and this is something that I've taken, I've learned, is don't try to present. Just have a conversation.
[MARK]
That's right.
[TYLER]
Now you can do better, you can be clear, you can be more dynamic. You think about this conversation. We're both using our hands and we get, you're telling a story. You get excited and you're raising though your voice. But John's phenomenal at having that conversation that draws you in, that makes you want to know more. Then he does a presentation, but it's not, look at how great of an orator I am, but rather look at how I'm a conversationalist. I've thought about myself, my podcast, how I interact with people, when I present myself. I'm not a speaker. I'm a conversationalist. I want to have a conversation.
[MARK]
Well, what I love, and I've traveled the world with you, I've been in Israel, we've been in some transformation countries together, we've done a lot together, Tyler, and again, it's so good to be with you and your community today, but one of the things I love about you is whether we're sitting down with a podcast that's going to be heard by hundreds and thousands of people, all of that's good. Whether we're sitting down at dinner with our families, our wives, and just going to have a great time, whether we're sitting in Israel, whether we're sitting in in Washington, or whether we're sitting in Georgia, no matter where we are, here's what I know about you. We're going to have a great conversation. I'll tell you want to be a great, you want to be a great speaker, learn how to have a great conversation. You want to run an effective board meeting, have a great conversation. Teach yourself to be conversational. Because when you can do that, you will keep people longer. You will drive people more consistently to do action. You'll be invited back because people will think you actually care about them.
[TYLER]
I mean, I had to learn that. I had to learn, and I know we've talked about the things that we've learned together as that pure, that older brother, to an extent that you've shared and grown through this together. One of them that we talked about, oh, year or so ago, that I shared with you in the open, I had to learn that my pace and intensity drove people away. And John actually notes that in the book here about you. He puts you out on blast. But it's not something that, not that you're not identifying, hey, I need to work on this. It's slow down so people can go with you and I can get excited. I have to catch myself in this platform to slow down so my passion doesn't overwhelm. And I learned that from John, from the position of if you get there and you're all by yourself, you haven't done anything, it's slow down and go at a pace that people can, and once they feel more comfortable, they can start going a lot faster. But if you find yourself where they're not there with you, ooh, that's on you, not them. That means you need to slow down. So how have you worked, not on stage, but how have you worked as a leader? Because that's been identified on stage.
[MARK]
So question is certainly one, because when you learn the discipline of asking questions, you learn the discipline of stop talking so that someone else can catch up with you or more importantly, you can catch up with them. Isn't that true? What we're trying to do as communicators, we're trying to find our audience rather than our audience find us. Oftentimes, the reason I'm communicating is fast or intense, is why, one, I'm nervous. So the faster I talk, the more emotion that I get. Number two, the reason is because I have a lot I want to say. Too many times communicators are most concerned with what they want to say rather than what the audience is hearing. When you slow the pace down to a time to where, and a cadence to where audiences can process what you're saying, they can apply what you're saying, and then they can learn how they're going to transfer what you're saying reproduce. That's when we're most effective.
So, you're right. I mean, John worked with me often saying, "Mark, you've got to slow down because even if your content is good and you talk fast, your content is irrelevant because people don't have time to process. They check out because you've said too much rather than you've not said anything good." I'll tell you, it's true from a stage, but it's also true in a boardroom. It's true in this conversation. I get so excited talking to you, Tyler. This happens to me every time. I get so excited that there's 15 things more I want to say, but I find I benefit more when I slow down and let you talk. So questions is one, and two is realizing that as fast as I'm saying it, you need to give people time to slow down and process what to do with what you're saying. And processing and applying takes time. Speaking can go very fast, but applied speaking must go slow.
[TYLER]
I don't remember who said it to me, and it was one of my teachers. They made this comment, don't pour a gallon's worth of information into someone's shot glass of attention. I think so many leaders, communicators, especially the people that they try to, oh, I have all this information, I have everything I'm trying to get done and they pour this gallon of information and people only have a shot glass worth of ability, it's an ounce and a half. Okay, so you take 128 ounces into an ounce and a half and you're just like, no, you overwhelm them. As I read through the book and I thought about all the times that I've sat at John's feet to listen, to learn, whether that's at a table eating, whether that is on, he's on stage and I'm just part of the audience, one thing that John does tremendously that reminds me as a communicator is repeat yourself, not to downplay the audience thinking, oh, I have to repeat this so they come, no, no, no, no. Repeat yourself.
So that way, one, that shot glass is very, very distilled where it's the best stuff. If you do that, it comes back to what Andy Stanley shares as well. What's the one thing, what's the one thing? And if you have the one thing and your content's backing up all that one thing, then you're going to go out. Because if everyone's sitting there and they're carrying these gallon jugs of information out, they're paralyzed because it's too heavy. But if it's one small little piece, man, they can take and run with that and go act. That's something that I know both of us have learned from John. It does not matter what you say, but if people can't act with it, whatever you said does not matter.
[MARK]
Yeah. It's so interesting. oftentimes we repeat ourself for emphasis and we end up saying something, you've heard it, people that repeat something that's not very good, the more they repeat it, the more it repulses you. Yet, when you work hard at creating something of significance, like Andy Stanley says, the more you repeat it, the more significant it is. When you can find that one thing and drive home that content piece, that thought, that idea that you're trying to drive home, then you continue to repeat it. Maybe say it in a different way, but every time you repeat it drives the stake home deeper and in more application points or more application ideas to the audience, the person that's listening. That's why I love what John's done with a lot of his books. This one's no different, the 16 laws of communication. What's the underlying thing? You need to have a discipline approach at how you communicate that? I mean, that's just that one thing John's trying to drive right here.
[TYLER]
Well, and that's where I come back, grant, there're 16 undeniable, there's 16 different laws, and they're essential and they stand alone. As a person of faith there's a lot of different commandments, there's laws, and it really comes back to loving. I believe loving is connecting and if you're willing to say, hey, I'm not up on stage to say, to make me look better. I've had this saying, I've told Kelly, my wife, she cringes at it. I have zero problem making a fool of myself in service of others. I really don't. I've come to grips with that knowing and again, that the security of, all right, this is who I am. I got to work on that, make sure my insecurities don't get in front of me and just say, hey, I can be okay. But if that's what I come to serve, and through my experiences and through those different learning environments to say, hey, this is how I'm going to connect and love on people and say, you're important to me because I care about you, then that's what makes everything else effective. Because I still believe this. I think you would agree, you can have every other law down packed, but if you don't connect with people ---
[MARK]
That's exactly right.
[TYLER]
It's not going to work.
[MARK]
It's not going to work. We overlook that so many times. Again, that goes back to what we said about John and conversational. He decided that the way to connect with people is to get a response that would indicate how well the audience is conversing back with the speaker. Too many audiences, I mean, too many speakers are more interested in what the next slide on their PowerPoint is, rather than how the current PowerPoint is impacting the people they're talking to.
[TYLER]
Do you think that came from John's maturity and being in so many different positions or do you think it was an inherent, this is what I think people deserve and want?
[MARK]
it's funny, you and I talked about the different laws and how they apply to different people in seasons of their communication rights. So you think of a young leader, a young leader struggles with the law of credibility. We don't have that credibility. I would tell if you're a young leader and you're trying to understand how do I effectively communicate, you're going to have to establish credibility. It goes back to John and in the question that you're asking Tyler, when John began to communicate, I don't think that he knew to be conversational. I think he knew, and he tells me, he said, "Mark, here's how I can call you out on talking too fast, because I did it once." Now I think John's always been a great communicator. I've heard him for a very, very long time but I also think that John has taken a good gift and made it great.
How do they do that? No matter where you are on the scale of communicating in front of an audience or to your significant other, no matter where you are on the scale of communication, my question to you is, can you improve? Sure, you can. That's why I go back to this law of credibility. John began to gain credibility as a communicator when he learned to be intentional in connecting with people. There's some people listening right now that has had five times, they've stood in front of an audience this week and tried to share something and never thought, how is my message connecting with the audience? They ask the question, how well did I communicate? How well did my point make sense? They ask a lot of those questions. But there's people right now for the first-time hearing, how did I connect with my audience? How was my message?
Well, see, John, going back to the question, I don't think John always asked the question, how did I connect? He tells a story also in the book of how he just knew a message he wanted to communicate one day, all because of how it sounded when he was practicing, only to realize the audience not only was not ready to hear it, they had already sat down for an entire 14 hours. They wanted to hear, dismiss, not how powerful his presentation was. When you recognize the power of connection, your message becomes less important and you as a messenger to what the audience needs to hear becomes more important. Now often we are so worried about our content that we lose the focus on connection. I do think John, as good as he is, I think he became great when he focused on the power of connectivity. Because that's when he began to, that's when he truly began to build credibility that all young communicators want to know how good I sound, rather than how well did I connect? If you're going to build credibility, this law of credibility, you're going to build it by how well you connected, not how well you communicated.
[TYLER]
There's an element of, I think about the times that I've been on stage or presented and the ups and downs, I had one person ask me, and glad never to the extent of yourself or John, whatever else. The lady was so nervous and she was going to go up on stage next. There was a little presentation to her and she was so nervous. I just got done. She's like, "Well, how did you do it?" It's like, hey, there's six, seven, 8,000 people out there. I don't know. There's someone out there smiling. It's a lot easier to speak in front of this crowd than it is to speak to one where if they're not happy, they're not down with what you're saying and they're frowning and they're furrowing and they're upset, that's an uncomfortable place to be in.
Put me up on stage in front of a hundred thousand people, I'm going to find one or two that happen to like what I like, because they like anyone and just focus to them. I think when I think about that, why I share that is because when I became comfortable saying, I'm here to just connect and find those people that can relate to the lessons that I've learned and I'm trying to share, man, it's real comfortable and when it's uncomfortable is when I am trying to force it upon others feeling like my value is going to come from, if everyone is smiling. There's going to be people. John tells the story about people with gas or they have to go to the bathroom or whatever else, they're going to be frowning. That happens to all of us. If we can stop and be willing to, instead of, as I'm processing this and I'm thinking about myself and I'm thinking about in a leadership role or a family, if I see those faces that they're not comfortable, instead of plowing forward because I have to hit my time structure, say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hey, what'd I say?
Because I don't know what I said that maybe you didn't understand. That's why I'm asking. Or I'm willing to put everything else aside because that doesn't matter if you're not with me this far. If you're not with me this far, then I need to be willing to go back because everything else I say after this doesn't matter. I believe that's being willing to say, my only importance is to surf it. I think about this as we're talking, Jake, your producer, great. Jake does phenomenal work, Jake Decker, and he was talking about going on the trip with his wife here in a few weeks and was talking about going to the restaurant. And I'm thinking, and John tells this story in the book about this, is if as a communicator, just imagine you're sitting down for a meal. You have your hors dv, you have your main course, you have the dessert, you have whatever else in there.
If the server is so bent about getting you to the dessert that you haven't even had your first glass of water, you don't care how good that cheesecake is. I think that's something that I'm just, and again, that comes a little bit from John's book, but it's also this conversation. If we're thinking about the entire meal, then hey, I need to enjoy everything. If I didn't enjoy it, then fine, let's move along, but let's make sure that something wasn't wrong that I could fix. Or just say, hey, I don't like fish. So you know what, that dish that was fish great. It was wonderful. You could do nothing more to make it better. I just don't like fish. Let's get me to the next serving because I'm excited about the dessert. Bring it on, let's go and be excited about that instead of thinking, oh, I need to hammer this. Is that, are you connecting with that? Are you relating to what I'm sharing?
[MARK]
Yeah, I am. So many times, whether it's leadership or communicating we often miss the journey because of the destination or we often are anticipating when really there's something to extrapolate from where we are. I love balancing that with what you're just talking about. We don't necessarily like fish. We can't wait for the dessert. I love that. I so relate to that, by the way, but the concept that you're communicating, I like that too in this way. Oftentimes what makes the whole entire mill in your example is the different components that move you in and through a culinary experience. Oftentimes, we say, oh, I don't like that. So I don't want that. Well, taking that and making that a part of the journey is what makes your message or this meal desirable to yourself and those around you.
I watched John Tyler, you do too. John loves to communicate. I, on the other hand, sometimes are like the lady that just caught you in your illustration. I'm going, oh my goodness, what am I going to say? Are they going to like it? Is my pit sweaty, like you talked about earlier? Am I ready for this? Oh my. Most of the time when I am not enjoying the journey, it's because I'm making the message about me and how I am being received than the message about those that I'm having the opportunity to impact. That's why you challenge yourself and challenge this lady, "Hey, find the one or two out there that's enjoying and speak to them and let everybody else just enjoy your conversation." I do the same thing, Tyler. I look for the people that feel like they're resonating with my message the most and I begin to have a conversation with them. I think along the way, other people enjoy it, but we are having a conversation about the message that I have presented in a way that allows me to enjoy sharing and others enjoy sharing it with me. That enjoyment is what we're talking about and what we're after in communication.
[TYLER]
What's hitting me and I'm understanding where John has gotten great is I talk about the one, two, the three or four. John does that with thousands. He's willing to have that conversation and that person. He moves them to the, ah, I'm not sure if this is right for me to they're so excited sitting on their edge of the seat. That's what makes him great and he's so good at doing. And these laws really are the different tools that he's implemented over time, gotten comfortable using them all on the basis of connecting to do a deeper connection. And that John's so good about experiences. The experience of sitting there with him and again, this isn't to belabor the effectiveness of communication beyond the presentation of it, but yet the presentation of a communication when it's done in a conversation to connect with people makes you feel like you're getting a big warm hug. There's nothing more fulfilling than when you're sitting with John and he's having that conversation with you and you get that arm around you and that big warm hug and he believes in you. If I could take that away from this little conversation and say, as a communicator, if you can help other people find that place of belief within themself to where you're giving them that hug to say, I believe in you, man, that's when your communication is great.
[MARK]
Because why? Because everybody wants to take away from any experience that they matter, that they have value, that with a little bit of work they can become better, in other words, hope. And when you can make it your commitment that the purpose of every message that I do is to inspire somebody to the greatness within them, to the hope for a better tomorrow that's in all of us, for the belief that I matter, in other words, I'm important. If you can weave into every presentation, again, one on one with your significant other or in a small boardroom or to a mass of people, you've got to communicate. If you can communicate value, hope, and significance in the hearts and lives of as many people as possible, you're going to be a great communicator because that's what everybody wants.
That's, I don't care if it's a technology bootcamp, how exciting does that sound? I've been to a technology bootcamp. You'll remember the programming Language Basic. I don't even know if people listening to you, Tyler, because you're so young, cool and hip would understand basic. But when we used to do basic workshops, I remember one individual that made it so much fun and it made me look forward to the next programming content. I'm not a programming type, programmer type, but yet the teacher gave me hope that I could become one, helped me realize that was significant, if I did it well, I could be significant in the lives of others and expressed to me my value because I was making a difference in the class project. I remember it to this day because it extended to me that I was the champion in her lesson. That's what everybody wants from you. They want to feel like that you, they matter to you in your lesson.
[TYLER]
That's the desire in in our world today is that we matter. If we look at younger generations, if we're looking at us as Gen X, this Gen X leader that's trying to bridge this gap is so many that are listening to this and the millennial Gen X leader that are finding themselves in leadership or maybe you're even younger than that, maybe you're in your twenties listening and that's fine because we're all dealing with this same thing, is how do we make sure that people feel understood and appreciated above and beyond anything else? Because if we do that first, everything else solves it. But if we get too ahead of ourself being has to be this way, this is, you're just going to have to like it and get on the bus. That doesn't work because there's enough buses and there's people are like, I'm good to walk or take my scooter. I don't need to get on your bus.
That's an understanding that I think so many leaders that are navigating through the ranks or find themselves through their own organizations that are having to figure out that has never been in leadership before. And I believe the conduit to that is communication. It's communication, focusing on the person that is listening. The person that's listening right now to our conversation is more important than any content I have on my notes, that you have on your notes. It doesn't matter what matters to me more is like, hey, am I stressing this point of it's not about me, it's not about Mark, it's not even about John, but it's about, that's the person listening to say, "Hey, you can do this. Just focus on the people and serving them. If you do that, all the content will work itself out."
[MARK]
That's brilliant. That's brilliant. Recently, this would not be in the book because this just happened. In fact, it happened in your recent trip that you and your family was on. We were having one of our large events, we have it in Orlando twice a year, and we had coached Sean McDermott as one of our speakers. For those of you that don't follow football, that's okay Tyler, and I forgive you, but American football has a team that is like killing it right now, The Buffalo Bills.
[TYLER]
I thought you were going to say another team that you were really going to take that opportunity at this platform right now to take that knife and just twist it, just twist it. For those of you that are not part of this conversation, I'm going to let you, this is not a tangent, it comes back around, Mark is a tried and true deep in the soul Georgia Bulldog. I'm a Buckeye for life. If you didn't know that, there's a little right there behind me, a little Buckeye ---
[MARK]
Right behind you.
[TYLER]
It's all good. But please go on about Coach Sean McDermott.
[MARK]
Well, but here's what's important. I have nothing to say about our most recent meeting right in the college playoffs because Ohio State beat us. We just had a better score. So figure that all out because we were beat. But there you go. So anyway, coach McDermott, for those of you that follow American football, most recently in the 2022 year, DeMar Hamlin had a heart attack right in the middle of a football play. Coach McDermott demonstrated an incredible leadership that first focused on the player, then focused on the team, then focused on the game of football and the game of football came last and even canceled. It was powerful. It was a leadership moment that was attractive to all those that don't even like football. Here's the story that I want to tell you. We had got him to come to a day about growth that we do twice a year. He's scheduled to be on stage and he isn't able to make it because while he is standing backstage, we find out that his dad has a significant health crisis that sends him to the hospital and they're not sure what their outcome is going to be.
Sean McDermott getting ready to go on stage to talk about leadership and how he led in a difficult crisis about one of his players, his team, the NFL now has a personal crisis and I watched Sean McDermott struggle. Do I go out and speak to about 2,500 to 3,000 people or do I get on the closest plane, the quickest plane to get home and be what only I can be, which is a son to my dad? We talked through it and he made the right decision. He never got on stage at this event where thousands of people had paid to hear him speak. I had the privilege, and I'm serious about this, I had the privilege of explaining to the audience the decision that Coach McDermott had made backstage right before he went on. Tyler, I got a standing ovation when I explained to them that Coach McDermott had gotten on a plane and left his commitment to an audience to go be what only he could be, which was his son.
They gave him a standing ovation. We sent the video to Coach McDermott and he replied back. He said, this is a better moment for me than all the attributes ESPN, the NFL and everybody else has given me because this was the only thing I can do. Here was the point, what did I try to do in that setting and happened to be a little bit successful in this point. I made the audience the hero because they let him go and gave him a standing ovation. I didn't know they were going to give him a standing ovation, they just did because it was a powerful audience. We sent him the clip. I didn't know that was going to speak to him more than how he handled DeMar Hamlin. I didn't know that. What I did know is there was a way in this story for everybody to feel like they could matter and be a hero. Many people that were disappointed that they didn't get to hear Coach talk about being a good leader were proud to be in the room where he showed what a good leader was.
Now, here's my point. Read this book. It's an important book. It will help you in every step of the way. What John Maxwell has instilled in Tyler and I, and all of you that will read this book is there is a way to be an incredible communicator. It's not necessarily because you have a southern twang like me or you speak all proper like Tyler. What it matters with is how you connect the audience to be a hero in their own or in someone else's story. Because that's what communication is all about, helping others see clearly the greatness that's within them.
[TYLER]
I think there's a final piece here as we put a little cherry as John likes to say, you can put a cherry on top, let your actions speak so loudly that you don't even need words. That's what Sean did, that's what you guys did, because really of everything that he was about that he was there to share, it was his values. Had he violated those, now granted it's in service and maybe it's the right thing, but he made the decision you know what, I need to be a son first. When I got the call to come to the growth retreat, I wanted to be there. Trust me, I have a lot of fomo. What was, before he was even nope, I'm a dad first. Over the next five years unfortunately, and stuff that we've done, I'm going to miss a lot of events that I want to be at very, very, very badly. But I also know yeah man, the best place that I can be is wherever my kids are and you know who's with them?
A lot of other kids that need the examples and the values that you talked about from Coach McDermott that you and I share that you know what, as much as I'd love to be there and get a hug from you and John and know that wisdom man, that's the most important place that I can be. That's something that I've thankfully by your leadership and John's leadership and other examples have said, no, that's why I'm doing this. This is a way to learn and grow and contribute, but it's also, that's what my focus needs to be. If I have this continued growth that I'm on this path to grow and to serve and help others, hey, that's only going to help me in those circumstances, but also create opportunities for later. So I appreciate it.
[MARK]
Boy, it's so true. And I watch you, thanks for the kind words too, John and I. But I watch you Tyler, and I watch me and if I could tell you anything that I believe gives anyone credibility, and that's what we started with, that's where we are right here, what gives us credibility is number one, growth. We are improving ourselves. I would ask you today, podcast listener, how are you improving your communication? How are you speaking to others? How are you making others the hero? I think credibility is not only just about growth. I think credibility is about our passion and authenticity as you just talked about. Tyler, I know you man, and I know your desire to succeed in the areas where people know you the most and wanting them to think the most of you. I know that's what success is for you.
My question and comment to all of us, whether you're communicating, whether you're leading, whether you're being in a relationship, is how much credibility, how much ability do you give others to be dependent on your consistency, on what you're going to do. And what you were just talking about, Tyler, is you very kind things to me. We'll be there at the next room. We're good. We're tight, we're brothers, but here's what I also know is their credibility is all about timing as well and our understanding that credibility is built on understanding where we can most contribute and being fully present in that posture, in that place. I think for us, as we've talked about, the laws of communication today as we've just talked friendship, because that's what Tyler and I are, as we talk about, leaders who are put on this earth to bring influence and impact to others, what we want is to be able to say at the end of the day, that we have credibility, that we have a competence to help others. That's what I want for you. That's what Tyler wants for you. That's why we do podcast, to make a difference in your life so that you can make a difference in other people's lives. That's what leadership is. That's what communication is for.
[TYLER]
Mark, thank you. Thank you for being a catalyst for this book. Thank you for being a catalyst for everything that is the Maxwell leadership companies today. I appreciate your friendship. I appreciate what you mean, the belief that you have in me that exceeds what I have in myself, but that's something that I can aspire to. I thank you for that. Thank you for your time. Thanks for being here, buddy.
[MARK]
Yeah, man, let's do it again sometime. Love you, love your audience. Let's do impact together.
[TYLER]
Appreciate it. Thanks, Mark.
[TYLER]
I don't know if I thought about this, and I don't know if I've ever shared how Mark and I first got to know each other. It's through our involvement in the Maxwell organization now going back almost five years ago when I met Mark that day. And Mark is the person then, as he is now, as someone who believed in me, someone who has been always that person that I can have a conversation. I can go to mark as a mentor, as an older brother, and ask him for a lot of different insights and direction. I don't know why we've built that relationship but I also see in him, much like my personal growth journey is as I've had to work through my own insecurities, become more secure in the ability to serve and have this conversation that, oh, it's showing up to other people, including himself, that that's seeing it.
Why do I say that? Because I don't see it. Maybe you, yourself, as a leader does not see the growth that you're on, but I know this, if you commit to growing the process of growth, it will show up to a lot of people. Maybe you did not see me five, six years ago. Maybe you knew me, maybe you didn't, but yet, I know, and I hear from Mark that my ability to communicate hasn't improved. Why? Because I've practiced it. I've done the work. Could I get better? Absolutely. I need to get better. That's something that I focus on each time and each conversation I have here on this podcast is to have better content and communicate it and lead better. Well, what's my job in leading right now? It's to help and empower you to say, hey, you can be better in your communication. We all can. I can. How? Well, let's focus on connecting. Let's work on our credibility. Let's be more secure in who we are.
This is what I do know too. This is a special invite. April 3rd and 4th, I am hosting the Awaken the Leader within Workshop, where I boil down some of the key facets that I've grown through to be able to share with you and encourage you to grow, to become that leader that you are destined to be. Well, does that mean you need to lead a Fortune 500 company? No. Maybe that's leading yourself and by leading yourself, communicating within yourself better, as John shares about in the book actually, is how you become a better leader, 2000's and millions. I invite you, go to theimpactdrivenleader.com to register for that event, April 3rd and 4th. Would love for you to be there. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being a part of the community. As always, if you got value from today, please share it with someone. Share it. Make sure that this growth goes together, not just as a dead end because you heard it. That isn't a threat. That's just an understanding that when I share something that I've learned, I learn it better and the same can happen for you. Thanks for being here. As always, till next time, have a good one.
