Podcast Transcription
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:00:08) - Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host Tyler Dickerhoof and I'm excited to be here with you. I always enjoy these opportunities to one have an episode just to myself. Just it's a different context. It's a different interaction. I enjoy having that with you, the audience, whether you're watching on YouTube. Thank you to the subscribers and everyone. That leaves comments feedback there as well. If you're listening in wherever you listen to podcasts, Spotify, iTunes, I think those are probably predominantly the biggest. But you have audible, the Amazon, you have Google Play, you have all those other places. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you for being a subscriber. As always, I appreciate when you share these episodes. You share the feedback either with me or with others. So grateful. The last couple of weeks have had opportunities to have conversations with listeners and getting their feedback and hearing their feedback, the lessons they've learned. I really hope I have the opportunity to do the same.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:01:07) - As always, if you reach out either Tyler at Tyler Dickerhoof dot com or you hit me up, DM on social media, Instagram LinkedIn would love to engage with you and get your feedback. What lessons do you learn today? What new thoughts and ideas come from this last thing? If you're not a subscriber man, I would love for you to subscribe here or the YouTube channel YouTube channel. There's a lot of other content through the week that gets led up to this episode. And for the podcast listeners, those of you that rate and review the show, the opportunity for it to show up for me to get better as a guest, to add more value to you and anyone else listening. Man, that's what I aim to do. Please, I'd love to see those reviews and understand what value you got from this. All right. Today I'm excited to share with you the latest book in the Impact Driven Leader Book Club book series. This one, this gem right here. It's one of my all time favorites.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:02:05) - The last couple of books have been what I would turn to the top five leadership books and no different for this book. Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek. Then the last book, Atomic Habits by James Clear. I was tremendously rewarded by reading it again. I took so many notes again and it was like, aha! That's where I learned that. Aha! That's where that sunk in. Aha! Wow. That's timely. There's one excerpt I was reading just as I prepared for this episode, and it was discussing the plight of our current political world. Just as a note, this book was released in January of 2014, and Simon extols the the challenges in our political system, the angst. And he regales a story when political foes were actually friends, when you had more political counterparts that spent time together, whether going to dinner, public picnics, public affairs with their family. Now, in the last 30 years, you have politicians who spend more time back in their home area. That isn't all bad than they do in Washington, but what we find out is we have less cooperation.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:03:29) - That's been pretty visible. And Simon talks about that. And again, he wrote this probably ten years ago. I mean, this is a book that we all need to read again for the first time. Here are some of the key takeaways that Simon shares via his website. I'm going to hit on those, but then I'm going to go a complete different direction. He talks about be a leader who looks after their people. That's what you're going to find in this book as well. See your employees as human beings. Understand your biological chemicals and adapt. And then lastly, try to create a healthy and safe environment within your organization. Whether it's just me preparing for this and being excited to share this book. I look at those four key takeaways and I'm like, uh huh, that's still viable. That's still relevant today. I look at senior employees, human being, a man that is smacking us right in the face again, in this AI laden, in this post-Covid, get back to work, not to work.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:04:30) - I just saw, you know, Adam Grant explaining, saying, just don't make it all or nothing. Understanding our biological chemicals and adapt. I'm going to talk a little bit about dopamine and cortisol, which Simon refers to. And that is the pleasure seeking chemical or the stress induced chemical. And then lastly, create a healthy and safe environment within your organization. This is probably the last piece that has hit me most in the last week. I firsthand have experience. There's an organization where I'm involved in several different leadership roles, and as I've gone through that and as I look at my involvement, I was saddened. I understand why my mentor, John Maxwell, a couple of years ago shared how leadership sad he was. I was tremendously gutted and saddened this week, partly because of the actions that I took and how they affected people, but it came to a point where I was it was forced. I felt necessary to take actions because I saw people hurting. I saw something being created in a culture dynamic that was against every single thing that I believe and have learned from books like this.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:05:50) - And yet I was saddened because, like, did I act too late? There's going to be a toll. There's going to be ripple effects of me not acting soon enough. And yet I'm not the ultimate leader. But I'm also serving others. And I look at why I was so slow to engage and act and say. And I know in leadership it's not easy. It's sometimes very hard to have conversations, to give feedback to people that are very unwilling to hear it, that present themselves in a way that they're beyond it. They make themselves so sealed off that it's hard to engage and interact and be a team member. And I see that going on in my life. And I know those of you listening in might be going through that as well. It's not something new or different. And again, I'm saddened again by what's going on. But I'm also thankful. I'm thankful for the experience so it can remind me what maybe I don't see in my everyday interactions with people. That is so apparent for others to be in a situation that's not a safe environment to be in, an organization that is focused on the absolute profit and not the development, safety and enhancement of skills and strengths of those work in their organization.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:07:21) - Those are the topics that I'm going to discuss a little bit from this book that Simon shares. Simon in chapters 17 through 2017, 18, 19, 2021. Excuse me 17 through 21. Hey, you know, I'm not in kindergarten anymore, but sometimes you have to count with your fingers. He goes through the five leadership lessons. Well, I'd love to discuss these five leadership lessons that Simon wrote about in 2013, published in 2014. But applied here in 2023. The first topic that he brings about is so goes the culture, so goes the company. One of the first points that I, I really believe, and he shared here that I took note on if we shortchange or take culture for granted, the company will follow. So often we look at where we're at in our world now, and there's so much to do. There's either this tremendous demand for our product. We've seen that in in supply and demand situations in the last couple of years that we're just trying to stay on top of the customer demand, or you're in organizations where demand has waned.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:08:35) - Maybe margins are tight now, and you have leaders that are trying to figure out how do we stay afloat. We have a situation where a lot of corporate financing has changed. We went from very low interest rates to much higher interest rates. Sometimes the margin. Two three 4% on those interest rates is the entire margin that a company can produce a profit from. And now all of a sudden that's tight. And so we see the culture changing. And yet there's prime examples of companies that have said, no, we're not going to be like that. In the book, Simon talks about Costco and how during that period, and this was post the Great Recession of 2007, eight and nine, where they said, no, the economy is struggling. We need to make sure people have more money. We have organizations doing that today. They know that inflation is higher. They know the cost of living is higher for so many employees and their executives that they're putting money. They're not to give bonuses to just simple daily activities, but saying, we need to take care of the people that are actually doing the work.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:09:44) - See in a week culture. If we veer away from doing the right in favor of doing things that are right for me. That's when everything crumbles. So it's the character of the leaders is the character of the person. Who treats those who can do nothing for him. With grace and dignity. We see that in our society now, and that is a cultural element. That's a character driving circumstance. If I can do nothing for you, but you still treat me with kindness and respect and grace, whatever your company is, I'm going to think better of it. And that's where we're at today. That's where we see organizations striving. In a company with a strong culture, people will be feel protected by their leaders. This is what I'm seeing first and foremost. I see people acting. You know, there's actions that aren't meeting the words and words were actions aren't followed up. And ultimately people are concerned. They don't know their place. They feel uneasy. When people feel on easy, they disengage.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:10:58) - They they find a reason to leave. We've seen the great resignation. Why in so many cases? Because people didn't feel valued, wanted and appreciated. There was an overarching lack of safety, meaning I see value in you. I know you have value for organization, and I'm going to do whatever to protect you because you're valuable and we don't have that. People feel uneasy. And when people feel uneasy, performance wanes and performance individually ends up showing up corporately. One last point here in the so goes the culture, so goes the company that Simon writes about in a circle of safety, which Simon goes through and kind of really defines. And it's that idea of holistically, where do I feel safe in a circle of safety, from leaders, from organization, from those that I work with and a circle of safety when people trust and share their successes and failures? What they know and what they don't know results in innovation. Simon in this chapter talks about the organization three. He shares this story about how post-it notes were developed.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:12:07) - Post-it notes were actually a result of a failure. The inventor was trying to develop a much stronger adhesive and yet failed. And someone else took this adhesive, applied it to some paper, and created bookmarks. He was through that failure, but yet feeling the disdain of a leader who, when you made a mistake, they lashed out at you. They said, we can't have that. That's going to kill us. Know the leaders that embrace mistakes, the leaders that look at their performers and say, please make more mistakes because we all learn from it. See, there's a difference between failure and a mistake. A failure is compounded. A mistake is, hey, I'm working my way towards even a failure we can overcome. And then number two area. That Simon talks about the five leadership lessons and yet applied in our world today is so goes the leader, so goes the culture. We've seen this in organizations recently where we have executives who were hired maybe in the last couple of years pre during Covid.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:13:15) - Now all of a sudden it's in a different circumstance. And they're not the leader. Everyone once thought maybe they're coming out and they're trying to go back to pre 2020. Metrics. They're trying to go back to the way it used to be. Our world will never be the way it used to be. We have remote work. We have travel that is now different than what it was. We have human interaction. Do we have people living in different places? We can never go back. We have a desire for different products. We value things differently. And as a generation, we've talked about this in the recent past with the different podcast guests, the generations. Gen Z, millennials. They're looking for something so much different than what older generation Gen X, baby boomers are looking for. One of the topics that Simon really gets into and I, I find it enjoyable because it's been a conversation that is not only very relevant today, but several people have written about in the last five, six years. I was recently working with a PR agent.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:14:24) - I asked him what kind of information are people looking for the major publishers the Forbes, the Inc, the so forth and so on. What kind of leadership information are they looking for? And they said, well, it's how to deal with the adversity in the workplace. One but two generational. When we wrote about millennials in this book, actually, Simon includes a chapter of How to lead millennials. And here we're at it again. Now we're looking at how do you lead millennials and Gen Z? How do we lead the people in our world and see ultimately, so goes the leader, so goes the culture. We work to advance the vision of the leader who inspires us. And yet we work to undermine the dictator who tries to control us. I have teenagers, I was raised in a home where much of my consequence and restrict restricts whatever. I had my restrictions right? We're based upon the consequences. Hey, my bedtime was. You have to get up at 430 in the morning and go work.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:15:30) - You have to milk cows. You have to take care of cows. You have to get that stuff done at the same. Like if I wanted to be out all day partying with friends on a boat, whatever, I still had to do my chores. Whether that was 9:00 at night, 10:00 at night, I still had to do it.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:15:47) - When I was led to do that, I made my own choices. And yet I see my own teenagers or teenagers around them. The ones that are controlled rebel the most, and they'll rebel in whatever way they can. Oh, you say I have to do that. Well, I'm going to find the opposite. You say I have to come to this event. I'm going to find ways to not be there. I'm going to put my control. When you're trying to control me, see the leader who inspires people, he creates. Or she creates a vision for people to aspire to and invites them into that. Will sacrifice and be more disciplined than the dictator who threatened and controls and tries to manage every last detail.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:16:34) - Doesn't mean you can't have discipline, doesn't mean that you can't have, you know, codes of conduct. No, those are actually guardrails that help guide people. And it's not about controlling people that you don't trust them. It's giving them the opportunity to understand the entire vision. One other piece that Simon shares about in this chapter is when leaders isolate themselves. Oh, and I wrote this, that leaders who isolate themselves oust themselves. We've seen this leaders that all of a sudden they put themselves in the office and the corner office. They have different avenues by way. They interact with people. They have their own private jet. They have their own private car. They're too good. Now, maybe it's a time thing. I get it. There can be a lot of time requirement for leaders, but the leaders who isolate themselves fall right back into that position of the dictator who tries to control the ones that isolate themselves, really are the ones that try to control the most. Because the only way for them to understand what's going on is when they have such control.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:17:43) - Because a leader who inspires is willing to meander down the creek. With everyone there with and understand. Oh, there's a dam ahead we need to devour. There's a obstacle in front of us. We need to move instead of having such rigid guidelines. For people to focus on. The problem lies in the quality of the relationships within the organization. If the leader chooses to isolate themselves, then they're not connecting with the people around them. They're not choosing to engage with them, to see them as value. They're setting themselves apart. Whenever we set ourselves apart, we lose a touch of what really matters, what people are really dealing with. There's a word in the book that I see many times that Simon uses. I'm going to talk about it in a minute or two, but it's empathy. And I realized that one of my great solutions that I try to offer people is overcoming insecurity with empathy. And I see from this book of where so much of that was identified to me, the leader who tries to control out of fear is doing so because of their insecurity that their vision either isn't enough or that their process to accomplish the vision.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:19:05) - Is flawed. Because if not, they would understand. It's about that encouragement, that connection, that empathy to understand who is there and what empathy drives trust. And trust is the ultimate power, not control. Trust. All right. In the middle of this conversation, I just want to take a moment to invite you. If you're not a subscriber to the Impact Driven Leader newsletter, to go to the impact Driven leader backslash free course, you're going to get the four days to Maximum Impact video series as well. Submit you into my email smear where you can learn more about the impact Driven leader community. So now back to the rest of the episode. See if we give authority to those closest to the information, they're going to give us feedback that is far beyond what perspectives we may have. Because our perspectives are isolated, our perspectives are solely looking through the window or into a mirror. But when you have multiple people that look at it from a different vantage point, we see a much richer picture.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:20:25) - Simon talks about power. Physics power. It's defined in physics. Power is the transfer of energy. And the same thing happens in organizations. When we transfer power, we create energy. And when our energy is created. Results occur. Trust in the transfer of power. Drives cultures, not the opposite. The leader who inspires others and gives them power through energy drives an organization to accomplish a vision. The third point that Simon discusses, and this is I believe chapter 19 now is Integrity matters. Leaders who accept failures and tell the truth. Build more trust. And the worst thing we can do as leaders is deny the truth. Thinking that, oh, the truth is going to hurt us. The truth always wins, and the more that we embrace it, the better off we are. The more that we tell the truth and accept the truth, whatever that may be in the circumstance. We develop safety. People want to feel safe from their leaders and leaders that are willing to tell the truth. Will leaders that are willing to be honest? Drive trust.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:21:50) - See, it's a common adage understanding that people want to love what they do, and when they love what they do, they'll do whatever to get more of it. And sometimes you have to do it enough to love it. But if the love of the people that we do it with is strong enough. Man. We can do whatever. It's a military adage, really, as if we love the people around us. Will endure some of the harshest environments and climates. Because we love, love. There's the element of how you do anything is how you do everything. If you act with integrity and character in small things, it will show up in large things. You can't just save that for the large things and expect it to kind of trickle down. Now it's an all the things. Number four friends matter. I've recently understood this. Even matter even better. And it's something that I shared as I was introducing how I've been so saddened by what's going on because I understand in life. The only currency to measure any wealth.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:23:05) - His relationships in relationships matter more than any possession. Currency treasure we may have. See friendships give perspective. I shared that just a moment ago in regard to empathy and those that we work with. And yes, that can be friendships. Doesn't mean we have to be so close that we'll do anything together at any time. But if we have friendships in the place where we work. I talked about the political arena, and one thing that Simon shares is when friends work together, they cooperate. When enemies try to interact, they fight. So if we develop more friendships in common, understanding this empathy. We aim towards cooperation, control. When people try to control the situation, there's not cooperation. There starts to be pushback. There starts to be rebellion. See one of the problems that Simon shares in this area, where he talks about friends matter in this political days is blaming the system. Why don't we talk about that today? I'm not a person of politics. I think it's it's rather frustrating to me and I know why.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:24:23) - Because we no longer look to cooperate. We only look to control. We have to have one side that is more powerful than the other. Does that help anyone? No. The more time that we spend together. We start to appreciate each other more. Brené Brown, the the famous author, talks about this and this dehumanisation of our society dehumanizing by certain groups. Moves people away from appreciating each other. It's when we appreciate each other that we're able to cooperate and friendships and relationships matter. The last one and this five pieces that Simon talks about writes about in this book, Leaders Eat Last is Lead the people, not the numbers. We've seen this in so many organizations. I recently just talked to a gentleman in a podcast that's going to be releasing in a couple of weeks, John Vogel, and we talk about this in his organization, where he has gone out of his way at adapted social in order, adapting social. Make sure I got that right, adapting social in order to make sure people feel and understand that they're people, not numbers.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:25:37) - He worked in organizations. He saw organizations where it was just a number was just you're just a number. And we see that in a lot of places in our world, and maybe less so today than in the past, but it's still there in my in the impact Driven Leader roundtable the last few weeks, as part of our Gro sequence, we've been talking about expert versus master. I think this fits into this conversation of lead the people, not the numbers. See, when we're an expert, we want to hold on to our knowledge. We are the genius in our organization. A master understands that my organization thrives and lives on. When I pass along that expertise. When I become the master of a topic, I don't have to know at all. I know what I don't know, but I'm pursuing mastery because I'm helping others attain their expertise. Simon shares this quote. When the genius leaves the company, the company dies. A humble leader rather distributes power across the organization, and the company becomes less dependent on the one that's moving from expertise to mastery.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:26:49) - If we're focused on expertise, people will look at us with OOS and Oz. When we try to attain mastery in an area or subject within an organization, we move to that vaunted Gym Collins Level five leader where it becomes more about others, not ourselves. We try to say, how can we make the organization better? By passing along our expertise, by bringing others into the situation so they can have a broader perspective and enhance what we see and know is the difference between being a directive versus an empowering leader, and empowering leader stands alongside the people they lead and helps them through the process that may be close, that may be far. They're not trying to direct their every move with almost like a joystick controller in a video game. And understanding there's some things that will go great. There's some things that won't. An empowering leader accepts those and knows that that's when an organization gets better, either for themselves or for others. I mentioned earlier some of the chemicals that Simon talks about dopamine and cortisol. There's a piece here where he suggests and, and really kind of helps us understand that unbalanced levels of dopamine, meaning looking for that dopamine hit, that next sale, that next conquest, that next achievement.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:28:17) - When that drives behavior. It's done at the extent of others usually, and we have too much cortisol in our body flowing, we start to respond in protective measures, see unbalanced levels of dopamine driving behavior and too much cortisol flowing. Now empathy becomes limited in self interest, becomes a self dominant motivation. When we have too much dopamine that next hit, that next sales, that next bonus, that next whatever. And we have too much cortisol, where we try to drive the intensity and the stress of the situation to get a result. The system is going to break. We've seen people burn out, right? That's nothing new. We've talked about that. I had Carrie Nuove when we talked about at your best, we discussed that. And see when we have organizations that focus on the numbers instead of the people. That's what we find. It's just next man up. Okay. There's a piece in part to that. But it's also when that becomes the business model long term. The culture and the business are sacrificed.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:29:34) - See the personality and values of the person at the top of the organization. Drive the culture. It's a leadership lesson we've seen this time and again, and when the person at the top is so fixated on that dopamine hit and or living in a world of stress. Then that's the culture they're going to create. And I can attest, and this is what I was referring to earlier. Seeing it firsthand. You're going to have some people that are fine by it. But you're going to lose a lot of people. I've made this comment. I've seen it again, and it's a place to insert it as well. When you have a sink or swim culture. Too many people drown. And when, as a leader, you're trying to throw life preservers instead of teaching people to swim. People are going to be lost. Teach people to swim. Be a swim coach. Understand that empathy and going with people and loving them is what drives an organization. The employees will never love a company. Until the.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:30:45) - Company loves its people first. People matter. If you focus on the people and help guide them. You'll get whatever result you're looking for. It can't be one or the other. It can't be at the expense of others. I'm excited to share this book again. I got so much value personally out of reading it again and going through it and and thinking about the circumstances I'm either guiding people through or living myself. I'm excited to extend the offer to you, the listener here, the the viewer to join the impact Driven Leader Book Club. It's a free book club. I run it on either Facebook or Mighty Networks. There's people that have both. It's a parallel. Join the community. You can do so by emailing me Tyler at Tyler. I would love to invite you to be a part of that community and learn more about the impact driven leader community. Thanks for listening today. My encouragement is that whether you're part of the book club or not, you can take these lessons and you can apply it to your world.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:31:55) - You can be better for it. And understand two. These lessons were documented ten years ago. We're still trying to rectify and change, maybe even reset back to where we were in so many of our organizations. It makes me leadership sad for what I'm experiencing, but it also gives me great perspective into so many other organizations that are rife with stress and dopamine induced behaviors. It doesn't work. I've seen it firsthand, and unfortunately, the carnage may be too much. But I also know, and I encourage you listening in, it's never too late. Because if you're willing to stand up and say, I did not sign up for this, this is not right. It may be the catalyst to change it for someone. And as the story goes, the great story about the young boy who was walking along the beach. He was walking along the beach one day, and he saw these starfish that had been left on the beach when the surf went out. And he was torn by it. He's like all these starfish.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:33:09) - So he reaches down, he grabs the starfish, and he throws it back in the ocean. And there's thousands along this beach. And he goes to the next one. He grabs it and he throws it into the ocean. There happened to be an older man there. He was walking along and he said to the young boy, what are you doing? He goes, oh, I'm throwing the starfish back into the ocean. And the older gentleman said, there's too many. You can't make a difference. Indignant, the little boy looked him in the eyes, bent down, grabbed another starfish, turned, threw it into the ocean. Looked back to the gentleman and said, made a difference for that one and kept on his way. When we choose to make a difference. For one, we're making a difference for someone. Who matters. Someone of value. See, leaders eat last because their choice and their drive is to make sure others are taken care of first. And if they do that, they'll have a feast.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:34:08) - Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for being here. Till next time. Have a good one.