IDL29 Season 1: The Power of Positive Leadership with Jon Gordon
How is leadership strengthened through a lens of positivity? In what ways does positivity intersect with leadership? Why do businesses need telescopes and microscopes?
I am so excited to be sharing this interview I did with Jon Gordon 3 years ago. Jon’s books have had a major impact on my life and it was so great revisiting this discussion and reflecting on how much I have grown as a leader. There are a lot of challenges today in leadership, but we can create a solid foundation of healthy leadership by having these important discussions and learning from people like Jon about the power of positive leadership.
Jon Gordon's best-selling books and talks have inspired readers and audiences around the world. His principles have been put to the test by numerous Fortune 500 companies, professional and college sports teams, school districts, hospitals, and non-profits. He is the author of 24 books including 11 best sellers and 5 children’s books.
His books include the timeless classic The Energy Bus which has sold over 2 million copies, The Carpenter which was a top 5 business book of the year, Training Camp, The Power of Positive Leadership, The Power of a Positive Team, The Coffee Bean, Stay Positive, The Garden, Relationship Grit and Stick Together. Jon and his tips have been featured on The Today Show, CNN, CNBC, The Golf Channel, Fox and Friends and in numerous magazines and newspapers. His clients include The Los Angeles Dodgers, The Atlanta Falcons, Campbell Soup, Dell, Publix, Southwest Airlines, LA Clippers, Miami Heat, Pittsburgh Pirates, Truist Bank, Clemson Football, Northwestern Mutual, Bayer, West Point Academy and more.
Jon is a graduate of Cornell University and holds a Masters in Teaching from Emory University. He and his training/consulting company are passionate about developing positive leaders, organizations and teams.
Visit his website. Connect on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.
In this episode we discuss:
How positivity and leadership connect
Bringing out the best in others
Telescope and the microscope
HOW POSITIVITY AND LEADERSHIP CONNECT
“As a leader, you need to be positive. You need to point your team towards a brighter and better future. You need to share the vision. You need to lead with optimism and belief. You need to develop [positive] relationships with your team and you need to communicate in a positive way. ”
There are many ways in which positivity intersects with leadership. Positivity is evident in the way you conduct yourself, in the way you address and speak to people, and in the way that you build and foster relationships.
Therefore, when it comes to being a leader and building a business, the fundamental aspects of creating a cohesive team and strong company lean against the principles of positivity.
“You need to be tough. You need to challenge your team, but you need to do so in a loving way, and I call it love-tough instead of tough-love. ”
You can still give them love and be fiercer when necessary, however it is important to keep the love there and not use it or remove it whenever you feel like it. Keep the love present while the pressure builds or decreases depending on what is needed.
BRINGING OUT THE BEST IN OTHERS
It is through positive leadership and loving-tough that you can nurture and bring out the best in your employees.
“Positive leadership is the way to lead if you really want to bring out the best in others. Pessimists don’t change the world, naysayers talk about problems, but they don’t solve them, critics write work, but they don’t write the future: it’s the positive leaders, believers, and dreamers that create the future. ”
Positivity makes you a better leader, and it is through that positivity that you can bring out the best and support it in others.
This is because positivity not only addresses what can be done better, but it also places focus on what is being done well and which successes have been enjoyed thus far.
TELESCOPE AND THE MICROSCOPE
The telescope is the big picture of where you are going and the microscope is the zoomed in focus on the actions that you take to get there.
In terms of leadership, the leader is the telescope: the person who keeps watch of the big picture and is able to steer everyone in the correct direction so that no one loses sight.
Then, in terms of focused action, the microscope is the active steps that the employees and the leader take to get the project or business in the right direction. These two work together.
“As a team or as a leader, you need to be talking about the big picture vision, and you need to be talking about what we need to do [because] it allows action and accountability to lead you to results but also [alongside] the big picture to remind you of your purpose and your vision of where you are going and why you are going there”
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
Visit his website. Connect on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.
Visit The Power Of A Positive Team website.
Visit The Power of Positive Leadership website.
BOOK | Jon Gordon – The Energy Bus: 10 Rules to Fuel Your Life, Work, and Team with Positive Energy
BOOK | Jon Gordon – The Carpenter: A Story About the Greatest Success Strategies of All
BOOK | Jon Gordon – Training Camp: What the Best Do Better Than Everyone Else
BOOK | Jon Gordon – The Power of Positive Leadership: How and Why Positive Leaders Transform Teams and Organizations and Change the World
BOOK | Jon Gordon – The Power of a Positive Team: Proven Principles and Practices that Make Great Teams Great
BOOK | Jon Gordon – The Hard Hat: 21 Ways to Be a Great Teammate
The Impact Driven Leader YouTube Channel
Join the Impact Driven Leader Community
Connect with Tyler on Instagram and LinkedIn
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
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Positive leadership is the way to lead if you really want to bring out the best in others.
Jon Gordon
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]
As you've heard, part of this podcast is also doing the Impact Driven Leader round table. I want you to listen to this quick message, this is an invitation. I want you to come sit at our table. You're going to learn, you're going to grow and you can't help, but have a great time with us. And I invite you. You're listening. There's a seat for you with your name on it. Come join us.
[MOLLY SLOAN]
Hey, this is Molly Sloan. The Impact Driven Leader book club and round table have been transformational for me. I've been involved for the past six months and it's taken me on a journey to be a better leader and a better person at work, at home, and really in every interaction with people. Tyler's done a great job of guiding us through the books. They're current, thought-provoking and they apply to all of us. The weekly round table has become an accountability team. I've done lots of leadership trainings in the past where you feel on top of the world, the week after the event, but ultimately it wears off over time. This group is better. We're on a leadership journey with each other through frequent, ongoing discussions and continual growth. I strongly recommend this group to anyone aiming to continually develop as a leader.
[TYLER]
Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast, or if you're new, welcome. Glad you're here. Thank you so much for joining in listening today. Today, I have the pleasure of releasing an interview that actually did three years ago. This is with John Gordon and it was part of a previous podcast, but it was perfect timing to be able to release it again now for you. As we kick off the month of August as part of our Impact Driven Leader book club, we're going to be reading the book, The Power of Positive Leadership. I was so thankful a couple of years ago that John gave me the opportunity to interview him. We've continued a relationship, continued to kind of connect back and forth, and unfortunately was not able to get from a timing point of view, another interview. But I was so glad to be able to have this conversation, not only from the fact that it was a time capsule to go back where my life was three years ago and how his books have been a major impact in my life and what I listened to then and how I've transformed now.
I'm so excited to be able to share this, not only his conversation with you, but also this book and his whole array of books and this idea about being a positive leader. It's changed my life. I can look back and say, I am not the person I was when I spoke to John three years ago and it's because of what I have put into action. I really hope you enjoyed this episode. I'll come catch up with you in the end and invite you into the opportunity to be a part of our book club. I'd love to see you.
What did the ten-year-old you want be when you grow up?
[JOHN GORDON]
Oh, I wanted to be president of the United States. So just a small role. And after the last couple of years, I think I probably might want to pursue running again or run at some point. I ran for the city council years ago and lost the election. I was 26 years old, but it was a great experience. I don't think I'll really ever get involved in politics to be honest, but it was something and I was a government economics major at college as a result of that, interned for a were Congresswoman from Ohio during the summer, one summer while I was in college. So I had that experience. I wanted to be in politics.
[TYLER]
Okay. Awesome. All right. So last one here, and I think this will lead us into kind of our next set of questions, what events divide your life into before and after?
[JOHN]
Oh, well, that's really simple. So I would say 30, 31 years old, my wife and I were fighting a lot. I was miserable. I was unhappy. I was negative and she threatened to leave me. She said, "No, you need to change where or relationship is over. I love you, but I'm not going to spend my life with someone who makes me so miserable." I was always negative. I was always miserable and that really began the journey of doing the work that I do. So it was a defining moment in my life. I prayed to God. I said, "God, why am I here?" I prayed a lot. "Why am I here? What is my purpose? What am I born to do?" That came to me through writing and speaking, just know, showed up home.
So I said that's what I'm going to do. And then I would say that was a huge part of the surrendering to God in that time. And then I was baptized in 2006. I grew up Jewish, my mom was Jewish, my biological father was Jewish raised by my dad, my stepfather, but my dad was raised Catholic and Italian. So at the age of 35, in 2006, I was baptized and that really was the defining moment of my life because my faith became stronger and I started writing all these books after that. And everything about life just started to change from that time on.
[TYLER]
Dude, that's awesome. That gives me goosebumps because I think that's awesome and inspiring what God has done in your life and used a cataclysmic event to transform the lives of so many. I was sharing with you earlier. I'm reformed. I try really hard. I think I grew up in a kind of a glass half empty and it was always that way. I'm surrounded by that. And I try so hard to be positive. I find your books and what's funny is my eight and 10 year old, read your books and they'll sometimes say, "Hey dad you need to be more like the positive Gordon." I appreciate that and that's awesome. So let's take that and we can probably come back into some of your stories there, writing the books, that you have The Energy Bus in particular. I do have say, and I have it here with me. I'm going to show you, this is my favorite book, the one that I read first was The Carpenter and I don't know how many people share that.
I think I hear from a lot of people about The Energy Bus, so forth. Other books you've done tremendous amounts. The Carpenter was a book that really kind of, I don't want to say defining, but that's who I want to be. And it was also the Go-Giver. I read that book about the same time and it's like, that's the person I want to be. So talk about how, I'm going to have you focus on that, talk about how your journey and why you wrote that book to the extent you did and how that is you now.
[JOHN]
Well, I appreciate you saying that. People say that's my best book. It probably is my best written book. And I do love that book because it's all about building greatness. And it's a special book in terms of representing my own journey a little bit, as well as Energy Bus. Energy Bus is almost my journey of being positive and then The Carpenter is really my journey into learning about servant leadership, because I was not a certain leader. I was not someone who was about others. And when I began to serve others, I still, how I grew up when I began to make my life about we, we got better. So it's really a part of the journey I think we all have to go through to be a great leader. So Carpenter was something I wrote because I was thinking about caring and what makes us stand out in the workplace. What makes us stand out in our business, in our career, and in our lives. I had a carpenter come to the house to build an entertainment center like in the book.
He came in, I started talking to him. It was during the great recession. I said, "So are you struggling right now?" He goes, "With the economy? No I'm busier than ever." And I realized that he was busy because he was great at what he did, because he really cared about his work. He cared about his craft. So I thought it would be really cool to write a book called The Carpenter and the person of faith that would have some meaning there as well, but also to teach these leadership principles on how caring causes us to stand out. Well originally i was just about caring, but then I was giving a talk to educators in Texas, the conference of educators, and I talked about love, serve, care. And it was started to do have love, serve, care; hash tag, love, serve, care. And everyone started to put that into their tweets and share. And all of a sudden I saw all these tweets on Twitter and I realized that's the book it's about. Loving, serving, and caring.
And the cool thing about that book is I had no idea how I was going to start it, but I wrote the beginning and then I didn't have the ending. I remember calling my publisher saying, "I don't know what happens at the end, maybe an earthquake, not sure, maybe the house burns down, but the entertainment center still stands." I didn't know. And then I was walking to the beach where [inaudible 00:08:52] came to me and I saw how the end and the beginning both fit so well together. So magical. And I knew that it was part of a bigger plan that really, I had the story all along. I just had to wait for it and then write it. So I wrote that book about three and a half weeks, just pure inspiration. And yes, it's a special book. So I'm glad it resonated with you.
[TYLER]
Yes, that's awesome. So you kind of talked about it there. How do positivity and leadership connect?
[JOHN]
Well, to be a great leader, you have to be a positive leader. So my calling in my work is positive leadership, but you really shouldn't have to say positive, the word positive, because as a leader, you need to be positive. You need to pull your team towards a brighter and better future. You got to share the vision. You need to lead with optimism and belief. You need to develop relationships with your team. You really need to communicate in a positive way. You to be tough. You need to challenge your team, but you need to do so in a loving way, I call it love tough, consider it tough love. You need to love them, challenge them and push them. So positive leadership is the way to lead if you really want to grab the best in others.
Pessimists don't change the world. Naysayers talk about problems, but they don't solve them. Critics write words, but they don't write the future. It's the positive leaders, the believers, the dreamers that create the future. So to me, that's how they intersect. So positivity makes you a better leader. And then as a leader, you need to live with that optimism belief to ran the best.
[TYLER]
One of the things that I picked up here in The Power of a Positive Team, and I actually heard, saw an article, I think on ESPN earlier this spring about Golden State Warriors and how their halftime protocol, what they do. And I think you really referenced a lot of it with Kate Val and her lacrosse team, but they do, they come at halftime and they split up the team and the coaches and what are all the good things that we did and come out in the third quarter and as Golden State they blow people away. And as I heard that and part of that now as I'm putting this together, it's like, "Hey, that's your job. What did we do, what are we doing great. Let's keep doing that. If we can do great things great, we won't do those other things". So I think that's what I pick up in here and it's so important from a leadership perspective that you are always pointing out the vision. This is what we're doing. Great. Keep doing it.
[JOHN]
Yes, the more you focus on what your team is doing right, the more they'll do those things right. If you go into halftime and you're talking about everything that went wrong, the mistakes you've made, you're not going to really go out there in a positive way. Now you do need to make some corrections. So it's okay, what can we correct? What do we need to improve upon? But then what are our strengths? What are we doing right? How can we do more of those things right? And the key is really just knock it down. A lot of times, teams at halftime get negative, they get down. But if you snap the mystic and stay positive and give yourself more energy, more focus and a greater chance to have more success when you are positive.
[TYLER]
Sure. I mean, and I've lived that. I luckily have a very, very positive wife and she imparts that on me. And I'm guessing you do as well as you've referenced. And I see that in my life and the more I focus on it and not on the negative corrections when I need to do the more fun it is. So what is the personal greatest lesson that you've learned from writing your books and all the subsequent? So what has John learned through all of this and what has God taught you through all of it?
[JOHN]
Well, every book I read, I learn. So it's really wild. I'll write these books and then it's almost going to happen and I'll read what I've written about, even more. So every book I write makes me a better person and I learn so much. So from The Energy Bus, it was about staying positive, overcoming negativity, Training Camp was about excellence, making sure that I gave my best in everything I do. The Carpenter was about love, serve, and care, about making sure that I'm a servant leader. So what I've learned the most is really just to be someone who's positive and someone who can work to build greatness, but to build greatness, you must bring out the greatness and that's be a great leader.
You only become a great leader when you bring out the greatness and when you look to bring out the best in others. So I think what I've learned is how to stay positive, how to overcome negativity, how to continue to move forward while I'm doing so. It's not just for me. It's how can I really make others better and in that process of loving, serving, and caring, I then grow into the leader that I'm meant to be?
[TYLER]
There's a part in your new book where you describe what Earl Watson, he tells about, if you help your teams win without scoring, you'll be ready for the big stage. And I think that's what you just alluded to there. And I think that is different in any organization. So show me how that can play out for maybe like a tennis player or a golfer that thinks, "Hey, it's all about me. I go out there on the court or I go out in the on the course, and I play, and I'm just, it's all on me." How does that team, and how does that helping those other people in entrepreneurship? You're the one writing the books, but you have a team behind you. How do they make you better?
[JOHN]
Well, even if you're a golfer and you're a tennis player, and you now work with tennis teams or work with golf teams, even if you're an individual, you still need a team around you. We all need a team to succeed. So it's the energy your team brings to you. It's rather whether or not you're working together, whether you have a coach, easiness whether they get back, whether you have trust. So all the people that surround you are part of your team. So golfers all have people that work with them at the highest level. And even at college golf team, they support each other. They make each other better. I saw how they came together to support each other and then they individually played better. We know the term, we were saying that the rising tide raises the level of all ships, Even with tennis, individually you can have talent, but you must be part of a great team to be great. So having these guys who support you on a tennis team makes the individual better. By you supporting your team members, you get better in your individual effort as well.
[TYLER]
Yes. So I love that because in my business, specifically network marketing, it's so much, oh, it's about me, but it's like, no, you won't go anywhere without rising other people and finding out what they're great at. So, yes, everyone has their own business, but yet everyone works together. And that's why I love it because you're not a man on an island, but yet you have, you get to be entrepreneurial enough. One concept that I absolutely loved in the book The Power of a Positive Team is the telescope and the microscope. Could you walk us through that?
[JOHN]
Yes, telescope is the big picture, vision of where you're going and the microscope is the zoom focused actions you can take to get there. So you just have a telescope, the microscope, you dream it all the time, your vision, but not take an action. Microscope, no telescope, you're working hard and you're grinding but if you face adversity or challenge, you get frustrated. You might give up because you'll lose sight of the big picture. So we need a telescope as a leader to share with our team, here's where are going. Here's why we are going there. We need the microscope? What are the actions we need to take in order to realize the vision and the telescope?
[TYLER]
Now, does that always need to be the same person or can that be different people on a team?
[JOHN]
Different people on a team, but as a team, as a leader, you need to be talking about the big picture vision, and to be talking about what we need to do. So that allows action and accountability to lead you to results. But also a big picture is to remember, to remind you of your purpose and your vision of where you're going, why you're going there. As a team you talk about it often, hey, remember where we're going. We have the setback now yet, yet we have this challenge, but we're going here. Let's remember where we're going and why we're going there. Yes, we're facing adversity, but let's continue to move forward, telescope, microscope, but what can we do today to be great?
[TYLER]
Awesome. Well John, so if people haven't seen it, I know I've been sharing this book a lot on social media and I think it's great. It's an easy read, which I enjoy about all your books. Like you said, I can give them to my kids and they love them. I think it was yesterday. We were sitting in our house and my son's like, "Oh, dad, what should I do?" I'm like, "Well, why don't you finish the positive books?" And he's like, "okay, let's go do it."
[JOHN]
How old is he?
[TYLER]
He is eight. And I I'll share this with everyone. John Maxwell, who's been a big mentor of mine, shared with me. His dad would have him read books. I think you've talked about this same thing. So we start doing that with our kids and it was great that, like I said, your books are great because it's easy for them to read and they can comprehend it. And my sons, both of them play soccer. My older son who, he loves sharing the books with his team as well. So they write a report and I actually, one day they were in my office as they are now summer vacation and I said, "Here's the deal guys. You guys read the book, you find 10 lines out of there that you want to highlight. I'll give you a dollar for each." And yes, it was great but at the same point, I know they were learning such wonderful things. A book that you've written that is kind of, I know, near and dear to your heart and being a lacrosse player, being from Cornell, the Hard Hat. And that's a book that I gave my team this spring. and my son, especially as far as giving it your all and being like George. Do you want to talk about that at all?
[JOHN]
Yes. George is an incredible leader, selfless teammate. The books about him, it's true story. All my other books are fables, but this is a true story, about a real young man who had a huge impact on so many people. He passed away when he was 22 years old, got hit in the chest with the ball, got in the field at Cornell. And ever since then, the quinoa cross-program has been defined by him. The Hard Hat, the blue collar work ethic, the culture, and now his friends that are now 32, 33 years old live their lives based on him, the kind of leader that he was, they say, "Hey, would George be proud of me? Am I living the life that he would be proud of?"
He had that kind of impact on these people. So I encourage people to read the book. It's something that all the proceeds, my proceeds go to charity, so his foundation, so I'll never make a dime up in his life. His story, everything goes to him. I'm working on a movie, hopefully do a movie about him. And we have the Hard Hat Kids coming out in a few months, too, to teach kids about how to be a great teammate.
[TYLER]
Well, I love that. I gave 12 copies out to the team I coach this spring, giving another 15 copies out to the team. I would love to do something where our entire soccer club gets it because I think it is just such value as far as all the things you want. So I appreciate that.
[JOHN]
I'm hearing from so many leagues and clubs around the country that are using the hard hat and these kids are emailing me and sending messages. I want to be like you, I want to be like George and now having this impact beyond Cornell, to all these young people. And I really feel like that was the purpose of the book. I knew I had to write this story and tell the story about him to help other people be great teammates.
[TYLER]
Yes. Well, I can say there's some kids here in Spokane that are having that impact. So thank you, John. So anything that you want to tell anyone about your latest book, The Power of a Positive Team before we sign off here?
[JOHN]
I just hope they read it.
[TYLER]
I think they should. It's a great read. I enjoyed it a lot. Thank you so much, John. I enjoyed this time to sit down with you. And thank you for the impact that I know you've made in my life. And I know that you're making in so many other people's lives.
[JOHN]
Thanks Tyler. It means a lot and go big red.
[TYLER]
Go big red.
You know, as I listen to that episode, refreshing myself for where we're at today and one there's timeless stuff there. I still feel like The Carpenter's one of my very favorite books. I was just listening to a podcast recently and another guest was saying, how that's his favorite book period. And to me it sparked something to model and emulate. If you haven't read the book, The Carpenter, I highly recommended. If you haven't read The Energy Bus, I surely express to you. The book that I think has probably had as much of an impact in my life, The Hard Hat. It's not only a book that all of my kids have read, but also it's been a major tool that my son's soccer team has utilized for three years now to create a common language within their team to know what it means to be a great teammate. I think it's a book that you could read in an office or a family setting. I highly recommend it.
But I want to personally invite you to come join the Impact Driven Leader book club. This month in August, we will read the book, The Power of Positive Leadership together. The Power of Positive Leadership, let me get that out again, together. And I'm excited about that because not only when we read something together, we all learn a little differently. We get to add in kind of, as I like to say that I've learned as we layer in our learning, we layer in what we get to take from the book and how we can apply it. And we take that deeper in the round table. Why am I inviting it to it? Because there's no better way to finish the year and maybe in light of how can I be a positive leader?
There is a lot of challenges today in leadership. You know, I keep hearing time and time again, we're in a leadership deficit. Well, look at that from a standpoint of what are we doing to create the foundation of good, healthy leadership as my purpose is to help other leaders get healthy, too. Part of that I know is working together with others to sit around at a table, help others expose our blind spots. Where can we be better? I had to become a more positive leader. I hear that from time and time again from people like, "Oh, he's so positive." And that hasn't been the case much like John shared in this interview. So I invite you to come sit down at the table with us, enjoy this time, enjoy this time to get better because I know you'll get better and we're going to finish out 2021 in a strong fashion.
Thank you again for listening. I would love nothing else. If you got value out of this episode, go share it with someone. I'd love a rating, review, let me know how I'm doing. If I earned a five star review, man, I'd love that so more people can hear about John, so more people can hear about how to become a healthy leader, so more people can hear about the opportunity that you know what, you're not the only one out there that from time to time is struggling, figuring out how can I become a better leader for my family, for my organization, for people around me, my community, because honestly we all, all have ways to go to be healthy as leaders. It's a practice you got to do every day. It's kind of like a shower. If you're not working on it every single day, eventually you're going to start to stink. I don't want you to stink and I'm here to help you and serve you and invite you to be a part of the community. Thanks again for listening and I can't wait to see you back here again.
