IDL38 Season 1: Developing an Empathetic, Supportive Leadership Mentality with Chad Veach
How do you stop insecurity in business from turning into jealousy? What is the superpower that empathy brings to leadership? Why should you elevate your mindset from disruptive to positive?
In this podcast episode, Tyler Dickerhoof speaks with Chad Veach about developing an empathetic, supportive leadership mentality.
Chad Veach is the founder and lead pastor of ZOE Church in Los Angeles, California, a dynamic church with multiple locations throughout the city. In addition to leading ZOE, he is an international speaker; the author of three books, Help! I Work with People, Faith Forward Future and Unreasonable Hope; and the host of Leadership Lean In—a popular podcast specializing in organizational health, creativity, and leadership development. Chad and his wife, Julia, reside in Los Angeles with their four children, Georgia, Winston, Maverick, and Clive.
Connect with Chad on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or Youtube. Visit Chad’s website, the ZOE website, listen to the Leadership Lean In podcast or, watch his sermons.
IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
What could hold you back from being a cheerleader for your team?
Developing a healthy mentality
Empathy in leadership
What could hold you back from being a cheerleader for your team?
“If there’s something inside of us that’s threatened [and thinks] that if somebody else wins I lose. If their light is shining that means my light is diminishing, and it’s just a lie. ”
A person feels threatened by someone else if they are insecure in themselves.
When you feel secure in yourself and your accomplishments, you can celebrate the success of others with genuine joy and excitement. However, this little insecurity blocks that sincere feeling, and if left unattended can develop into something sinister.
“We all have a twinge of insecurity and if that goes unchecked it grows into a gaping massive wide insecurity … we all have a twinge of insecurity and that’s fine. We just can’t let it turn into jealousy, comparison, an unhealthy competitive nature. We have to let it be checked by humility and by being grounded. ”
Insecurity is a normal human response, and it often points out to you an aspect in someone else that you may want to develop in yourself.
However, let it only be that, and do not let it develop into jealousy and other more nasty emotions, as that can pull you and ultimately your team down.
Get your insecurity thoroughly checked annually by a good dose of humility, grace, and being grounded in who you are and your journey.
Developing a healthy mentality
“We got to really get our minds out of the gutter so we can get healthy, and the more healthy I am the better shot I have at leadership. ”
One of the cornerstones to becoming a great leader is to nurture and develop a healthy mindset. 80% of the thoughts you have today you had yesterday, and most of them may have been negative.
To see the good in others, to encourage and support the team and greater community, people need to level up their mindset and the way they speak to and think about themselves and others.
Ultimately, everything flows from mindset, so make sure it is secure, positive, and humble.
“Part of being a positive leader does not mean I am unaware of hardship, difficulty, failure. It’s that I’m processing it in a healthy way so that I can get healed from that. ”
Empathy in leadership
People admire your strengths, but they can relate to you through your weaknesses.
It is in being vulnerable, open, and honest with your team and practicing empathy with them that allows them to see you as a whole person. This brings them closer to you and therefore makes them trust you and have them know that you can trust them.
In this way, practicing empathy is what allows your team to follow you and your lead with confidence.
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
Connect with Chad on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or Youtube.
Visit Chad’s website, the ZOE website, listen to the Leadership Lean In podcast or, watch his sermons.
BOOK | Chad Veach – Help! I Work with People: Getting Good at Influence, Leadership, and People Skills
BOOK | Chad Veach – Faith Forward Future: Moving Past Your Disappointments, Delays, and Destructive Thinking
BOOK | Chad Veach – Unreasonable Hope: Finding Faith in the God Who Brings Purpose to Your Pain
The Impact Driven Leader YouTube Channel
Join the Impact Driven Leader Community
Connect with Tyler on Instagram and LinkedIn
Email Tyler: tyler@tylerdickerhoof.com
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.
There’s no superhero cape on any great leader. In fact, I always think that people admire your strengths but they relate to your weaknesses.
Chad Veach
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]
All right. Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. So happy to be with you. We are kicking off another month, the month of October. Man, can you believe 2021 is over. Maybe you're listening to this in 2022. So thankful that you're going back through the archives of the library to listen to these conversations. So this month, the author, Chad Veach, I got to sit down and have a conversation with him. And the book Help! I Work with People is going to be part of the book club, the Impact Driven Leader book club. You can join that at tylerdickerhoof.com or the impactdrivenleader.com.
I'm excited to go through this book. I'm excited to go through it because I think Chad does a phenomenal job of tongue and cheek to say help, I work with people. We get into a fun conversation where we share our experiences. He's a pastor. I grew, worked professionally as a nutritionist for dairy cows and yet he wrote this amazing book in leadership. And I come to you as part of this podcast and love to have these conversations where we look at leadership and as I shared with him, it was never about the four-legged problems. It was never about cows. It was the two-legged problems. It was the people. And that's something now almost a decade later I've learned and grown from is that it's really, Chris Allen, a podcast guest, some episodes, I think it was episode eight or 10, I should know that, shared it's always about people.
Chad in his book describes Help! I Work with People. I hope you enjoy this conversation. I surely loved it. Chad was such a wonderful guest. I talked too much, period. I did, but not to take away anything from Chad. You're going to love the conversation. More importantly, you're going to love the book and I'd love for you to be a part of the round table or the book club. We read the book together in the round table. We talk about it once a week on Zoom. Love for you to be there. As well, man, if you get value out of this episode, share it with someone, make sure that they get value out. And I'd love a rating and review to let me know how I'm doing, how the guest was, what value you got about it. Hey, just each episode. What did you learn? I'd love to have that in the ratings and reviews so other people can find these great conversations with these guests. Not me. They can hear me, but it's the guest that I'd love for others to hear. So thanks for being here. I'll catch you at the end, after this conversation,
[TYLER]
Chad, so great to be chatting with you, man. One I've thoroughly enjoyed learning about you. I won't lie to you. Before your book came out, I didn't know much about Chad Veach, this superstar guy, dad, just husband, all those things friend, as I've learned about. But what I loved is what we're here talking about is, is one, your book, Help! I Work with People. And I love the title. And there's partly tongue in cheek. There is no other person that can rock a stash like you just be honest. I mean, I got a bald head, my kids, the other day, my daughter goes, "Dad you and The Rock kind of have the same smile." I'm like, "No, I have nothing like Dwayne Johnson, nothing like Vin Diesel." You have the mustache and the smile. And this is what, I'm going to learn this. I mean, I've had people tell me this, that your heart is as big as your smile and I believe it. And you have a smile that is just, it warms the heart. So Chad, thanks for being here, man.
[CHAD VEACH]
Well, thanks for having me on. My kids, when my kids ask me questions about my mustache, I correct them, I say, "It's my 'moostache."
[TYLER]
A classic dad joke right there, dude. A classic joke.
[CHAD]
Yes. Get it. When you got four kids in a van, you could ride the dad joke as far as you want, man.
[TYLER]
Just go with it. Just go, so ---
[CHAD]
But it's on point today, man. Thanks so much for having me.
[TYLER]
It's exciting as I was digging through the book when it came out last fall and I was excited as I just shared with you, I was excited at that point to one at some point, hopefully have this book as part of the book club, it's going to be here for the month of October. So stoked for that to be able to walk through the book with others, for them, maybe if they haven't seen the book to be introduced and read it. But one of the great things that I loved and it's funny, while I was waiting on you to sign in I saw this takeaway. And it's just funny how these things happen. And to me, if a leader only knows this, they forget everything else they think about leading and they know this. And it's the key takeaway from becoming their biggest cheerleader is be people's biggest cheerleader by believing in them and helping them believe in themselves. If you just tattoo that on everyone's forehead, that's a leader, we're all better off, right?
[CHAD]
Well, shame never changed anyone. Shame only points out the worst in us. Most people, we only hear what we're not, but we crave to hear who we really are. So I think people are so down on themselves already. Already people just beat themselves up. So you got to pull out the best in them. That's what honor does. Well, I honor you and I honor your time. I pull out, I receive the best version of you. So I think you got to become people's biggest cheerleader because they are not their biggest cheerleader. I'm not the biggest cheerleader in my life. I need voices, sources, strengths of encouragement. So I don't know anybody that woke up today and is like my biggest problem is I'm just way too encouraged. No, everyone I know is a little bit discouraged. So you got to become people's biggest cheerleader and them believe in themselves.
[TYLER]
Yes. It goes along with the comment that how do you know when people need encouragement? It's like, are they breathing? I mean, if they're alive, they need encouragement and that's it. So let me ask you this, obviously those that come and read the book with us, we'll dig through it and get through all the pieces and parts. And I love in my journey how much I've had to grow in insecurity and growth in my insecurities and empathy. And you talk a lot about it during your book. To hinge on this key takeaway, what do you think holds people back from being the cheerleader of others?
[CHAD]
Well, I think there's something inside of us that's threatened that if somebody else wins, I lose. So if their light is shining, that means my light is diminishing. And it's just a lie. It's such a fabricated lie. So I think we're held, we're threatened by the success of others. We're threatened by the confidence or the accolades. I'm a big faith person. So Saul in the Bible, to use a biblical example, there's this guy, David, young guy, he's killing it, he's the upstart. He's the guy, he's blown up on Instagram or TikTok, whatever you want. And they're singing his praises and that threatened his boss because his boss thought, Saul thought if the young guy wins, I lose. Saul should have rewired his mind to think that guy's winning and he's on our team.
If he wins, we win. If the people love him, that means our kingdom and our ecosystem is flying. But we all have a twinge of insecurity and if that goes unchecked, it grows into a gaping massive wide insecurity. So listen, when it comes to insecurity, all of us have it. Like you said about every human's breathing needs encouragement, every human, we all recognize I'm flawed, I'm not as cool, not as good. I'm not as talented. I'm not as successful. So we all have a twinge of insecurity. That's fine. We just can't let it turn into jealousy, comparison, unhealthy competitive nature. We got to really let it be checked by humility, by being grounded, and if we do, see because when I really embrace my gifts and I love my life, I can celebrate it and go, I don't want to be anybody else. So I'm glad Tyler that you're doing well, but I got to be honest, I wouldn't trade my life for anybody else's. I'm glad you have what you have, but I'm really thankful for what I have. That's helped.
[TYLER]
I had a former guest and we talked about this and he goes, you know talking about tragedies in life. We've all gone through something. He talked about an issue as a child, a traumatic experience, and he goes in order to really take that and make it something powerful, I had to decide to use gratitude as a weapon. He said, I'm grateful I went through the experience because just as you shared, I'm grateful for who I am and know that I could be this person. I could be this cheerleader because only I can see what I can see because I was designed to see what only I can see and be grateful for that. It's like, Jack, I don't want to sit in your seat because if I'm trying to sit in your seat, then I'm blind to what I'm seeing.
And I think that's this, again, the whole idea of leadership in this context of Help! I Work with People. I kind of wanted to take a tangent here because I think a lot of times people look at, you know someone leads a church, a pastor. And that's different. That's different. Well, my background, agriculture, I was a nutritionist for cows and here I'm talking about leadership podcast. That's what I love, helping people and serving people and what I realized long, it was never cows. It was never the four-legged problems. It was always the two-legged problems. And the reality is, as you write this, it doesn't matter what industry, anyone that's listening in, it doesn't matter what industry you're in. I can guarantee there's at least one other person and if there's not one other person, there's at least you.
You talk about that in your book. You got to start leading yourself. That's the hardest person to lead, but it's this idea, it doesn't matter where you're at. We're all people and if we learn about people and we're curious about people and we grow together and we're accepting like, "Hey, this is who I am, now how can I use who I am and help others?" Well, that's when we can start to really grow in our leadership. Is that what you've experienced as well?
[CHAD]
Absolutely. And I think it's about trying to develop a healthy mentality. That's why I consume all of Colin's content because the healthier my mindset becomes. We tend to think such negative thoughts. And I think it's like, we think, 90% of our thoughts go negative and of those 80% are reoccurring. So how do I retrain my mind to think well, to get healthy, to get sharp, to get bright? The mind's so powerful. Colin was teaching me this recently, good friend, Colin Henderson, the greatest of the greats consume all of his content. He said, the mind only keeps track of failure, not success. For every negative comment we hear you need five positives to erase the one negative. So I think we got to really get our minds out of the gutter so we can get healthy. And the more healthy I am, the better shot I have at leadership, whether it's cows, four legged ---
[TYLER]
You know, the thought I thought of there, as you talked about that is, I've helped coach my son's soccer team and coaching those kids, it's like, you can see it more in kids. We can, adults have kind of created this armor and that could be a hindrance form, but kids, you can see it. When you correct a kid you can just see their kind of spirit crumble a little bit. But when you cheerlead, when you tell them good job, when you really praise them, you'll see them accomplish things that they never thought they could. And I think it happens in all people. It's just, we see it in kids. As a dad, I imagined you've seen that with your kids. It's like, if you get harsh on them and you're like, oh, why'd you do that, but then as opposed to when you celebrate them, you know how much different they are. And it really comes back to this idea of being a cheerleader and focusing on those areas.
[CHAD]
I heard someone say about parenting, if I speak to the fool in my kid, I'll get the fool. But if I talk to the king inside of my child, I'll receive, I'll draw out the king. So it's my responsibility to pull out the best in others, but I'll never do that. It's impossible unless I ---
[TYLER]
And that's where it starts from. It's how you view yourself is how you view others. Something you shared along these lines is people live in the real world. They're just not your world, is I think how you said it and wrote it. And I believe that. It's so often, we have this perception, idea of well, this is what other people think about me. It's like the reality is they're not thinking that much about you, one and number two is what they think about you is probably way different than what you think about yourself. And it's when we can fall into that instead of making up these stories again, choosing to lead ourselves, well, then that frees us up to do a better job of really leading others, because we're not trying to protect ourself in that process.
[CHAD]
So true, so powerful, a hundred percent. So think about the journey of leadership and what is the quest. The quest is to make as big of an impact as possible. If I want to make an impact and I want to influence I want to lead, well, the requirement is first, if I can, this is the hardest part of leadership. It's not the others. They're not the problem. I'm the problem. It's like, I read about this in the book, The Blame Game. It's so futile. I'd love to play the blame game. It's just it gets me nowhere. I am involved in every one of my problems. So I've got to figure it out. I got to get counselors to help me. I got to get the right reading materials. I got to get inspiration. I got information. I got to figure it out because if I can crack this code, if I can figure out, okay, I need this many hours of sleep. I'm an introvert, or I'm an extrovert. I need this much exercise. I need this much coffee. Colin at this great lien, I could be an agent for Colin.
He's got the best. He said what are your MITs, most important tasks? Every person has three tasks they do every day that if they do these three they're at their optimum level. So I have to be unapologetic with my MITs, that I do my most important task, so that I'm sharp, I'm firing. I come in confident. People don't follow the competent person. They follow the confident person. So how do I build that confidence in myself so when I come to lead I got a clear conscience, I've wrestled with my why, I know I'm here to serve in that value, I'm not threatened, I'm ready to go.
[TYLER]
Well, I believe that's so much the power of discipline and consistency. And people hear that and they freak out, but you just laid out why it's important. Because if you're one person today and you're a different person tomorrow. You've talked about in your books and sports guy, I'm not even going to go LeBron, but I'm from Ohio. So, I mean, he was there first. Anyways, when talking about taking care of your body and finding that it's like building into those rhythms, building into those rhythms that is going to allow you to perform. And if we shortchange that, that's when all of a sudden we show up one day, one way, and the next day we're totally different because we're stressed out and we woke up late this or that.
Well, that doesn't help us care about people. That doesn't help us show up in our best way because then it starts being about us as opposed to I'm here to focus on Chad today. How can I really get the most out of Chad that he has to share because of the journey you've gone through? But if we're worried about well, like, oh, I'm behind on this and that and whatever else it may be that I didn't follow my routine to be ready to show up and perform just like athletes learn that, it is what you're talking about.
[CHAD]
Oh, a hundred percent. You know, I think we got to also learn how to talk to ourself. The whole thing about leadership is I can't listen to myself. I have to talk to myself. So if I don't I'll to myself and these thoughts will talk me out of greatness. I have to talk to myself into greatness. So I think that's one of the most important skills of a great leader, learning that ability to have the rehearsal and the disciplines of what I say when I talk to myself, going into a big meeting, going into, even for my line of work, I'm first a pastor. I'm a communicator of the scripture. So before I preach, I remind myself of what God has sent over me. I remind myself of who the big deal is today.
It's not me. It's another hero. I'm pointing everybody to the real solution and it's not my gift. I got to go through some disciplines and some rehearsals to get everything in line so I'm prepared. It's the old thing. Preparation brings forth freedom. We sweat in preparation so we don't bleed in battle. If I don't put all the sweat in preparation, I get to that battle, I'm going to get kicked in the mouth. We're going to have a tough time. So that preparation, that rehearsal, talking ourself into greatness so when I'm available with somebody it's clear eyes, it's a sharp edge. And people should leave and go, wow, the eye contact. When Jesus talked, they marveled at two things. They could not believe the grace in which He spoke, but they could not believe the authority that was on His life. Well, how do you think He got grace and authority? Sleeping in? Kind of going off the cuff? No, this was a disciplined, submitted person.
[TYLER]
Intentional and deliberate person. Again, that's what follows through, because as you consistently show up, that's how people are going to then decide to follow you because they know that they're not going to be let around in the desert and wilderness for 40 years. So, yes. Share with us, if you wouldn't mind, I mean, you share a little bit in the book, but share about some of your journey and growing as a leader. I guess I'm aware enough to know that every day isn't perfect for Chad. What are some of the things, challenges you've had at times as being a leader and really kind of these lessons that helped write this book, Help! I Work with People?
[CHAD]
Well, what I didn't, you write a book called Help! I Work with People and boy that'll haunt you. Now the staff wants to leave and you go away, wait a second, I thought you were the guy that wrote working with people. How come somebody wants to leave? So I've been working with people, obviously my whole life, but I mean, professionally for over two decades and you learn. Maybe I didn't handle that. Maybe I should have been a better communicator. Maybe my expert weren't clear there. We all have conflict. I'm not afraid of conflict, but do you have resolution? How quick are you to resolve problems? So, yes, I mean, I have failed. All of, any leader, your biggest failure will never be a budget. It would ever be an event. It's like this, this football team that just bamboozled ESPN, Bishop Sycamore, have you seen this thing?
[TYLER]
Yes, I heard about that.
[CHAD]
It's like ESPN's biggest blunder bamboozled him and they got to play on no, it'll be, how did they handle Keith Oberman or Dan Patrick? Or how did they handle Colin Coward? You know, it's always people.
[TYLER]
Maria Taylor, I mean, you just go down the list. I mean, come on man.
[CHAD]
Yes, it's people. I'm using an example with them, but it's, for me, the same.
[TYLER]
Well, what I think I hear there is like eventually you can rewrite history as you talk about, and it's a history between people, but if your pattern is that, well, then your history catches up with you. And eventually you can have all the bright stars, you can have everything that you want. Culture is king. However, if behind the scenes, you're not treating people with integrity and honesty and humility and all those things, at a certain point, if you continue to just use people as a widget, i's going to catch up to you. And that's what I hear. It's like, it's how you handle, you're going to screw up. I'm going to screw up. I'm going to screw up probably a couple times yet today. I mean, I have three kids and a wife. Come on, I'm going to screw up somehow. And it's more of how do I handle it? Do I get defensive or say, you know what, all right, I dealt with that, but then what can I do as part of this, coming back to the routine? The MIT is what can I make sure that I put in place to frame myself in so I'm learning and growing so I don't repeat it again? And asking for grace there.
[CHAD]
Yes, and I think that's the real catch. The real trick is how do I move past the common hurdles in my life? A lot of the problems that each of us deals with, these are not new problems. These are the haunting ones. These are the reoccurring. These are my snags. These are my habits. These are my propensity. It's my real weakness. So we got to spend time being vulnerable, being authentic, being transparent with ourselves first. And by the way, I don't have a shot at being honest with others if I'm not honest with myself. The more I am vulnerable with me and transparent about disappointment, about failure, about hurt, you know, that really hurt my feelings when they did that, that really let me down. Man, I did not see that ending up that way. If I can confess that to me, I can confess that to others. So part of being a positive leader does not mean I am unaware of hardship, difficulty, failure. It's that I'm processing it in a healthy way so that I can get healed from that stuff. The problem with not dealing with that stuff is we become a shell of who we're really called to be ad we start to have all these layers. And then pretty soon you see it with leaders, no one can get close to them, because they're not even close to themselves.
[TYLER]
Yes. They've put on such this armor. This shell, my opinion of that is it's all that burden of insecurity. And it's when we take that insecurity, we set it aside, we're willing to throw our arms in the air as Brad Lamek has shared, you know show your pit stains because we all have them and just say, this is who I am and you know what, I'm cool with that because I've taken my insecurity. I've admitted it. I've recognized how it shows up. To me that's when, again, this display that you talk a lot about, which I agree completely of being a healthy leader is practicing healthy empathy. And that's when we're willing to throw our arms up, put them around people that we can practice empathy. How have you seen that play out in your life?
[CHAD]
Very blessed, very lucky to have a special needs daughter. I don't know if I had a lot of empathy before her. I don't think that was really on my radar. I think someone to be very kind of afraid of is an aspirational leader. Someone that's on the client, that's aspiring to be great, they're kind of willing to do anything and everything to be great. That will get worked out of you when you get married, have chill, experience failure. And for me it was my special needs daughter. That kind of went, "Hey, let's slow your role here. Life's bigger than you and what you want to accomplish." And all of a sudden, I woke up to a world and I go, wow, everyone's in pain. How come nobody told me? It was the first time I was in pain.
So I think leading with empathy is so crucial. And I'm grateful that life touches everybody. Life happens to all of us. And when life touches you, you lead broken, you lead with empathy. It's like, there's no superhero tape on any great leader. In fact, I always think people admire your strengths, but they relate with your weaknesses. So it's not that they want you to be weak. They can just relate when you're weak. And I think that allows them to follow you that you're not perfect. You have also problems and you care about them when they're weak. So I think empathy is a big deal and it makes you very attractive.
[TYLER]
It's a piece I had to learn. I think you shared the example and I'll share this and I've shared this with the podcast audience before, but you had that experience and that opened your eyes to open your arms and say, oh, okay, others are hurting, whatever else. For me, my experience is I put my head down and pushed because I was just going to push myself through. And what I found is I pushed people away. And I think this experience of, I think that is a dichotomy that happens with people. There's people that can be enlightened through their process, or there are people that can respond and say, I'm just going to push through this no matter what, because I just have to survive and get through. And I was lucky many, many years later, decades later that this was kind of open and exposed to me and it's like here in this process of just trying to push through life, which a lot of leaders can be in a position if they're insecure, if they're just trying to prove yourself, like you said, that leader, that's just trying to get somewhere so I have value, you can end up pushing people away.
What you just said is the other side of that where it's like, maybe you've been head in the clouds or you haven't seen it and yet through an experience, through your daughter, this beautiful gift that you've been given to say, oh, there's difference in the world. I need to look at that and embrace it and by doing that, that's going to help me see others in a much bigger, better way.
[CHAD]
Because I just think we lead oblivious until we try to put ourself in other people's shoes. And when you're an empathetic leader, you're thinking about how, how do they feel? What are they going through? What is driving their behavior? What's on their radar in this season? When you go through hard times, it makes you pause and think about others. And I'm really grateful I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.
[TYLER]
Let ask you, what's your definition of empathy?
[CHAD]
Well, that's a great question. The word compassion always comes to mind when I think about empathy. So I always think empathy is having compassion for other people.
[TYLER]
Okay. I have this belief. I believe in this world today that there are two words that are the most, I would say mis-defined or ununderstood words. It's not great communicating, forgive me there, but empathy, and humility, we just don't comprehend. I believe as a society you look at it, you go to CS Lewis and it's like, humility. Humility is not thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself, but thinking of others more. It, you kind of grow through a process where through experiences you're like, okay, how does humility live out? Because it's not standing in the back of the line, always standing in the back line. Sometimes you need to stand in front as a leader, but it's understanding when to do that. To me, that's a practice of humility.
This definition of empathy to me is putting your arm around people. Because when you're willing to put your arm around someone you're to go with them. You don't have to own it. Let me play this out. You don't have to take on your daughter's condition in order that you can be empathetic, but you can put your arm around her and you can appreciate her and accept her. You can look and see what she's going through and know that she has value. She's bringing value to your life, which has impacted tens of hundreds of thousands of others. That's how her life is valuable. To me that's that practice of empathy. It's like, if you and I were walking together and I put my arm around you, I can't go faster than you. And if you're going faster than me, it's not going to work either. We have to walk together. And there has to be that appreciation of each other, but we're still independent, but yet we're together. To me when I think about it and layer that in, that's how I define empathy. But yet when you're callous and hard, you're not being empathetic. And when you're a doormat and just letting people walk all over you, you're not being empathetic.
[CHAD]
I love that.
[TYLER]
Well, I mean, you talk a lot about in your book, so I appreciate that you're recognizing, and as I'm learning and seeing that empathy is one of the greatest skills a healthy leader can display.
[CHAD]
A hundred percent. Couldn't agree more that it's the thing that we need. In these days and these times when you see anyone fighting on social media, all you're telling me is that you don't operate in empathy. Your heart's not going out towards others.
[TYLER]
Yes. Because you're choosing to protect yourself rather than being willing to sit down and see what they see. And maybe it's different. Maybe it's the same, but as I've heard, there's no two eyes that see everything the same. There's no two sets of ears that hear everything the same. Everyone's a little different. And it's being tuned into that that makes an orchestra. It's being tuned into that that makes an amazing light show.
Chad, thanks for joining, man. I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you giving me some time, our audience as well, getting to know you a little bit better, I hope there's another time and keep doing what you're doing. Keep shining your light as the leader that you are.
[CHAD]
I appreciate it so much. And man, if you're ever in LA, you got to come down and hang out, say hi. And if I'm ever in [inaudible 00:33:15]
[TYLER]
Look me up. Look me up.
[CHAD]
Thanks so much for having me on.
[TYLER]
Absolutely.
[TYLER]
I truly had so much fun and Chad, hey, an accomplished guy. I mean, when he's rolling with the Kardashians and Bieber and whatever else from a pastor point of view it's an interesting life, but he's just another guy. And I love that and I appreciate it. And that's honestly, one of the things that I've found most enjoyable about the podcast. So we're releasing now, I think this is episode 38, 39, something like a 38, and one of the things that I truly enjoy this year is I've been able to have 30 some conversations with people where I've grown. And I think to me, that's what this is really about why I do this podcast, why I love to hear from people that listen to it as well. It's how are you learning and growing.
As we wrap up 2021, this initial season of the Impact Driven Leader podcast, I would love nothing more to know how have these episodes impacted you? Now is the Impact Driven Leader podcast, as we go through these next two months, another seven or eight episodes in interviews, a couple more books. I really, truly hope that you're getting one, tremendous value out of it, two, that you're able to grow in whatever you're doing. My desire, my purpose, everything about me is to help other leaders get healthy too. I realize as a part of that, we can't do it alone. We need to be in community, whether that's small group that we work with, our family, those around us, or as part of the Impact Driven Leader round table, where it's people from all over the country with a desire to get healthy, to be better leaders, to serve their community in a bigger way.
I invite you to be a part of that. I invite you to put in your email, sign up for the newsletter so you can find out all about the stuff that we're going to be doing in 2022 to grow and serve people in a bigger way. Thanks for listening in. I will see you next time.
