IDL44 Season 1: Loyalty and Passion in your Company with Ty Bennett

What is the relationship between partnership in leading and empathy with employees? What power does a humble leader have? How do you create an environment in your company where your employees feel a sense of ownership towards their work?

Today I have an inspired conversation with Ty Bennett. Ty is one of the major keynote speakers in the world. He's a prolific writer and wrote Partnership is the New Leadership, The Power of Storytelling. He has a background in direct sales and we share a lot of the lessons we've learned from the direct sales network, particularly about humility and empathy in leadership.

Meet
Ty Bennett

Ty is the founder of Leadership Inc., a speaking and training company with a mission to empower individuals and organizations to challenge their status quo, cultivate exceptional relationships, and compete in extraordinary ways.

At 21, Ty and his brother built a direct sales business to over $20 million in annual revenues.
He developed a system and organization that would help over 500 sales managers fine-tune their sales and leadership skills in over 37 countries.

Ty’s best-selling books – Partnership is the New Leadership, The Power of Influence: Increase Your Income and The Power of Storytelling: The Art of Influential Communication – are used in graduate courses at multiple universities including MIT.

Visit Ty’s Website, and Connect on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Youtube and LinkedIn.

IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

• Partnership and empathy

• Ty’s leadership framework

• Humble leaders

Partnership and empathy

A profound way to garner trust, loyalty, fulfillment, and passion in your employees is to show that to them first. As the leader, you need to set the stage for how you want things to run in the business, so it is up to you to set this precedent.

“I believe that partnership is the new leadership. I think if we can truly partner with our people, meaning we show up fully for them, they’re going to show up fully for us. ”

— Ty Bennett

Partnering, showing up with empathy, and treating employees as people instead of numbers or workers enables you to create an environment where they feel accepted and encouraged, and therefore they are supported to bring their best to your company.

Ty’s leadership framework

-          Do I need to model leadership and show the employees how things are done?

-          Can we do it together and the employees learn from working alongside me?

-          Can I get my employees to a point where I am coaching them, and they do the work?

-          Are they ready to move to a consulting model where they have more freedom and come to me with questions?

-          Do you need empowerment to move up and beyond their skill level into becoming experts?

“I think there are stages of leadership with different approaches and with that [there are] inherently different principles and values that go along with the leadership ability in those stages. ”

— Ty Bennett

Humble leaders

Humility does not mean thinking less of yourself, it means thinking more of others. Maintain confidence in who you are – because that enables you to help people – while seeking to learn to better serve those in your circle.

“Humble leaders are growth-oriented which means they’re teachable … they are constantly learning … which means I can make mistakes and I can be wrong, that others have answers, and I want to keep learning and growing. I’m going to approach it from that standpoint: I don’t have all the answers because we’re all growing.”

— Ty Bennett

Humble leaders are those that are open to learning from their employees and the people in their circles.

They are willing to hear from someone else, and therefore create a truly welcoming and empowered environment where everyone is listened to and encouraged to speak their mind.

In this environment, people feel ownership towards their company because they feel respected and heard.

“What it does mean is that your people feel like they have a voice and because of that they feel empowered, and they feel a sense of ownership.”

— Ty Bennett

Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:

Visit Ty Bennett’s Website

Connect on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Youtube, and LinkedIn.

BOOK | Ty Bennett – Partnership is the New Leadership

BOOK | Ty Bennett – The Power of Influence: Increase Your Income and Personal Impact

BOOK | Ty Bennett – The Power of Storytelling: The Art of Influential Communication

BOOK | Ty Bennett – Leader of Leaders [in production]

BOOK | Ted Mann and Thomas Gryta – Lights Out: Pride, Delusion, and the Fall of General Electric

The Impact Driven Leader YouTube Channel

Join the Impact Driven Leader Community

Connect with Tyler on Instagram and LinkedIn

Email Tyler: tyler@tylerdickerhoof.com

About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast

The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.

Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.

The way you show up as a leader will directly impact the way your people show up.

Ty Bennett

Podcast Transcription

[TYLER DICKERHOOF] Welcome to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. So glad to have you listening in today, so glad that you made your way here, however you found this podcast. So thankful for it. If someone suggested it to you, I'm glad they did. If you found it just by searching, great. Awesome for that. If you're here, enjoy it. Please subscribe. Hit that subscribe button. Also, let me know how I do today. Let me know how this podcast goes. Give me a rating, let me know, review. I'd love to know what value you got out of this and rating, some reviews let me know that. So today I have a great conversation with new friend, Ty Bennett. Ty is really kind of, one of the major keynote speakers in the world. He wrote the book Partnership is the New Leadership: the Power of Influence, the power of storytelling. He has a background in direct sales, which he and I talk about, father of five. We share a lot of lessons that we've learned in leadership, both from the direct sales network marketing, but also in parenting. We had a great discussion. You're going to love it. Please grab your notes. Time makes a couple stops and man, you need to take notes of that. I'm taking notes of that. You should take notes of that. So hopefully you get value out of that and I'll see you back at the end. [TYLER] Well, Ty, welcome to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. So glad you're here with me today. As I prepped for this, mutual friend, Clint introduced us, but I then found out that we have a lot of other connections, including, I see his name or right behind you for those watching the video. He wrote the foreword to the Power of Storytelling. Don Yeager is one of my close friends as well. So, so excited to be able to meet you, talk to you and have you share just your journey and your story with those listening in. [TY BENNETT] Yes, let me, I got to tell you a Don Yeager story just because you brought it up. So, yes, Don's a good friend of mine. We've been in some mastermind groups, obviously read the foreword to my book, we wrote another book together and great guy, really just prolific writer, great speaker, love his family. So I had a neighbor knock on my door a couple years ago, I opened the door and he goes, "I just have to show you something." I said, "Okay." He was at a conference that Don spoke at and afterwards he had Don sign his book and he told him, "I know Ty Bennett, he's a neighbor of mine," and Don wrote in his book, "I question your choice in friends; Don Yeager." SO he came over to show it to me. [TYLER] I know Don, is why I'm laughing at that. You're smiling as well. [TY BENNETT] Yes. Great, great. Something to keep in, great keepsake in that book for sure. [TYLER] That's awesome. So excited to as, I, again, prepared for this and getting to know more about you and there's some similarities as far as your world and starting the business with your brother, direct sales and that really opened the door for leadership for you, which quite honestly, my involvement network marketing opened that up for me and realized there's a tremendous passion. So I'd love to just kind of jump off there. When you were going through that time period, what did you learn about leadership there that over the last now 20 years has really set that foundation of how to work with people and why you've written the books that you've written and why the the presentations that you've given. How did that kind of start that churning per se? [TY BENNETT] So I would say it even started before. I always wanted to be an entrepreneur. I always loved people. I loved small involvement in leadership type situations in high school and different things like that and actually wanted to be a speaker in high school. I was in charge of hiring a speaker for a state conference for DECA and I remember distinctly like going through, I didn't know I was doing it, but watching demo videos, VHS tapes back in the day of different speakers and then handing a guy, a $2,500 check and watching him just mesmerize this group of teenagers. I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. But my brother and I started a business in direct sales and it was such an awesome training ground. It's a business that is all about leadership and influence. It's all about being able to communicate and tell your story. So much of what I teach today are those lessons that I learned in the trenches doing that. As our team started to grow, I mean, we had ups and downs of building that business just like anybody would, but as our team started to grow, I found my role more and more was in speaking and training and development. That was where my real passion lies in connecting with people and engaging people and helping them to move their business forward. So I started kind of thinking about what I do with that and one thing that I think helped me from that standpoint is knowing that I wanted to take those lessons beyond that realm, I approached it that way and I constantly was analyzing those situations and trying to pull the principles out of it and trying to teach those. Almost it's like I had a built-in audience to practice with a little bit and just say, okay here's what I'm thinking from a leadership strategy. Here's how it works. Here's how storytelling can be applied and all of those things. So eventually that led me to writing my first book and then I've gone on to do more, but yes, it was an awesome training ground for sure. Pushed me, stretched me, but exposed me to learning from incredible individuals as well. [TYLER] One of the things that I can relate to you so much, my background was with cows and so it's interesting to be in the place that I'm at. Yet my cohorts are peers and friends. We would always kind of joke it's like it was never four-legged problems. A cow was going to do what a cow did. It was always two-legged problems. And one of the things that I picked up and I see from yourself and especially sharing that kind of connection when you're working with people from varied backgrounds, you have to find that common ground. So I appreciate this podcast is not industry specific at all. It's about people and making an impact. And so much of your work is the same and one of the great things that I gathered from you, which I believe is it doesn't matter. We're all people. In every single business, it doesn't matter what industry. You're a plumber you're in direct sales, you're in healthcare, you're in, whatever it may, it's all people. And how we interact as people, the stuff that you have shared so far all are the same. When we can boil that down, that's when we start to really make an impact and have influence and really get to this point of partnership that you've talked so much about. [TY BENNETT] Yes, I think I'm a big believer that we're all, and the people in business, especially in the leadership sales space that most of us operate in. It's interesting you say that because as a speaker, my work now I speak to all sorts of different industries. For example, tomorrow I'm speaking for a healthcare, group next week, I'm speaking for realtors. I mean, it's all over the map in terms of the industries I work with. But as I go back to my experience in direct sales, we worked with people from so many different walks of life and that exposed me to so many different perspectives on things and understanding how those industries worked and the nuances of that. So I think that that's a skill for me, but to be able to speak those languages, but it's also been experience that I've had to be able to work with all sorts of different groups and different people. But you're right, it boils down to the same thing. I've spoken in 30 plus countries and people are people and regardless of industry, background, experience, we all tend to have commonality and kind of core values that hit us as human beings. That's what I try and speak to the most. [TYLER] This was definitely not a conversation meant to be focused on direct sales or network marketing, but I believe it is probably the biggest leadership accelerator of any career because of the things that you just mentioned, that the different countries. My wife and I have had that opportunity where you're trying to connect with people that don't speak your language. So you're relying on body language to tell you really what's going on and finding ways to find that common ground so you can go to this same place together. I believe every industry, if they had leaders that really understood the value of the things you talk about, not high pressure sales, I don't want to be a part of that. I want to, as you've written about it, and I appreciate the partnership side of it, telling your story and just saying, hey, how can I serve you, it's really about that serving as opposed can I get mine. That type of healthy leadership, I think has a place in every single organization. As you've just mentioned it that really, it can be built in direct sales because in order to grow that business, you have to work with all sorts of different people. [TY BENNETT] Yes. And I think if you don't have experience in that, a lot of people would hear you, what you just said and go, "No, what are you talking about?" Because they just don't understand that business. But I agree. I think, I mean you can go back to, some of the biggest leadership gurus came out of that industry, you know, Jim Roan and Tony Robbins, and many others. I think that it is a great training ground, if nothing else. My experience with it, remember often saying that I have found that people who come into this business regardless of what they do with it. They leave better because of it. They may not go build a big business. They may not do a whole lot with certain products or whatever. Everybody's going to have their own experience and their own ambition in what they want to do, but yes, for me, it was a great training ground for sure. [TYLER] So let's take a step, as I mentioned earlier your father of five, our kids are similar ages and I'd love to know, especially from your older kids, your younger ones, maybe not so much, but they're probably teaching you something leadership wise. I believe the greatest lessons aside from working with people from a different, various background the leadership lessons I've learned from my kids of really how to lead them and not have this very strong handed dictatorial type relationship, it's really leading them. It has taught me more about myself and leading others than I think really any book, but it's taken those ideas and put in there. Has that been in a similar experience for you? What have you learned from your kids, working with your kids, your sons who are exceptional ninja athletes? What have you learned there? [TY BENNETT] Oh, so much. I mean, this could, how long is this podcast? We could probably go forever. Now kids are amazing because, for me, I just feel like we're in the trenches of it every day and everybody's at different levels and different experience in what they're dealing with. So my daughter, my oldest daughter, she's 15. She's very involved in student government, has been her class president, she plays competitive soccer at a very high level. So, so many conversations with her, but she has an incredible leadership acumen. She just gets it and just as you ask that question just recently, she called me on something where I just made kind of a joke, but it was kind of a condescending joke about somebody and she goes, "Dad, let's approach that differently. Let's just be positive about their situation." I was like, "Okay." I mean, totally correct. I mean, just, and awesome, in that regard, my boys who are 12 and 11, they compete nationally in American Ninja Warrior. So their drive and they're pushed to perform at that level. We're constantly talking about training and matching your action with your ambition and just all of these conversations that I feel like it's interesting now I'm giving a speech often that I'm using ninja as a metaphor, because the thing that I've found is I'm having the same conversation with these boys to perform at that level that I have with entrepreneurs and leaders; talking about how to overcome fear, talking about what's holding us back, talking about failure and how we push through it and how we learn from it, talking about focus and the kind of commitment and dedication that's actually required to show up at the highest level. So, yes, there's so many awesome lessons, and yes, my kids are very good examples for me from that standpoint. [TYLER] How much, you kind of alluded to it in a little bit and as you were telling it, I was thinking, oh yes, that's a big deal. Part of leadership as I've learned is everyone's different. My experiences, I've seen that is try to lead everyone the same and you're going to fail, especially as a parent. You kind of point that out your kids are different ages and the difference between a daughter and a son, as I have myself, it's just different. And even those personalities, I would imagine your daughters have different personalities, your sons have different personalities. When I can take and extrapolate that out and say, oh, that's how I need to work with others, to me, it makes more sense because you see it at hand as opposed to, well, I have someone in a sales position. I have someone in a middle management position. Well, if I'm not treating them all the same, that's unfair. And I think coming back as parents, it's like you can't do that because everyone has those tendencies different. I think that is what stretches you as a leader, that stretches you to say, all right, how do I figure out what really makes them tick? Where do they want to go? It's not about where I want to go. It's where do they want to go, right? [TY BENNETT] So it's interesting you mentioned that because I completely agree. If I think about my kids, they all have different personalities, ambitions. Like my boys, they both train in ninja, but one of them is very competitive and I can get in his face and that pushes him. If I were to do that to the other one, it would crush him, I mean, just in terms of how we interact and I know what those buttons are and what drives them. I've talked about this a lot in my first book called the Power of Influence. I teach something called the platinum rule. So everybody knows the golden rule, which is to treat other people the way you want to be treated. What you and I are talking about is a platinum rule, to treat other people the way they want to treated, to individualize that leadership approach, to know enough about that person, their goals, their ambition, their personality, their likes, their dislikes, what drives them, all of those things so that I can approach you and help you to become the best version of yourself and interact with you, communicate with you the way that you want to be treated. I think that makes a huge difference. It was interesting, I'm just going to bring this up. I'm not trying to make this religious, but I was speaking at a religious event last Saturday and I shared this idea of the golden rule and then the platinum rule. I said, just something to think about, I'm going to call it God's rule, but what if we treated other people the way that God wanted them to be treated? What if we saw them that way? As somebody who is religious personally that gave me just a different perspective to go, especially like with my kids, to go, okay, how does God see them? What is, how would I interact with them friendly? I don't know, just food for thought. [TYLER] Well, I mean, it's one of the things that I've learned and we have a similar, I know you've taken a lot from John Maxwell and I've had the opportunity to spend time with him and mentor him, this idea of values, which he has really now flushed out in his latest book. And he's been on the podcast to talk about it. It's, what you just brought to me is that value foundation. When we have that value foundation and John's identified one as valuing every person, well, I know exactly where that comes from. That for him is a big context, because that's the way it is. To me, what you've identified is just that common value and as a leadership perspective, if we can sit here and say, "Ty, you shared this and you asked me, do I agree?" I'm like, "Yes, absolutely." Well then, how do we work from that? Then if you're coaching me, if I'm an executive, I'm a CEO, whatever else and we go through that conversation and say here's my value. Now all of a sudden, Tyler when you look at people that you report to or in your organization, and now we can start and say, "You need to treat Mary a little differently. Understand empathetically what's Mary's background. Can you get at Mary's face or do you need to be just saying, hey, Mary, I appreciate you showing up every day." Then she's going to serve you over the top because understanding that person, to me, that comes back to that value you just said of how should everyone be treated. Everyone should be treated individually, because we're made individually. To me, it just starts from that framework. [TY BENNETT] Awesome. I like it. I think John articulates that so well. He just has a unique way of breaking concepts down so simply and I think that's a super power for sure. It's just the simplicity of the way he teaches complex ideas. So, yes, I love it. [TYLER] Yes, which to me, when you take that stance, and again hinging on what you shared about the values and where those come from, then all of a sudden it starts to evolve into, as you teach a lot, as you've written about that partnership is really that next level. To me, we can talk about empathy, I know in some of your podcast, the relevant leadership that's come up and the work that you're doing around there is really this idea of empathy. To me, as I describe empathy, it's putting your arms around people saying, "Hey, let's walk together." Because it's really hard to walk faster than someone when you have your arm around them. If you have your arm around, they're walking faster, they're dragging you, that doesn't work. It's walking hand in hand, step for step. To me, that's really a display of partnership. So I'd love to really kind of, for you to unpack that idea of partnership and maybe using the word empathy, how you see that. I'd love to kind of take a jot there. [TY BENNETT] I love your definition of empathy. I think that's well worded because we've heard different definitions. I think empathy is one of those words that's coming into the leadership vernacular. We're talking about it more, maybe credit Brené brown for all of her work there to make it something that we're understanding and we're seeing as a strength, not a weakness. Because ultimately all of these ideas of people skills are soft skills. I mean, they're things that we've identified and in the past were classified as soft skills and maybe less important or less prioritized. I don't know if they were ever less important, but we prioritize some of those hard skills more to become effective and efficient. But now to me, the great differentiator, what led me to writing the book Partnership is the New Leadership, I actually did a survey of about 5,000 people, leaders from all sorts of different industries. I asked them one question, "What do you want from your people?" From a leadership standpoint you think about the people who work with you, work for you. What do you want? 76% of the people came back and said they want commitment. Now in our world today, if you think about the great differentiator between companies, we have a lot less proprietary products, services, unique things that we do that no one else can duplicate. So the big differentiator is commitment. It's how are people show up? To me, I look at it and said, okay, what drives commitment? It's not jobs. People don't show up for jobs. It's not the company itself. People are committed to people. It is people and relationships that naturally engender trust, foster accountability, build that level of commitment. So if my personal belief, as I've studied this, I've watched it, I've worked with hundreds of thousands of leaders is the way you show up as a leader will directly impact the way your people up. We could give you all sorts of studies on how the reason why people leave is because of their manager. The reason why people stay is because of their manager. The reason why people show up and do their best work is because of their manager. Like it impacts things, the way that we lead. So I believe that Partnership is the New Leadership. I think if we can truly partner with our people, meaning we show up fully for them, they're going to show up fully for us. We're going to get the very best out of them. I think there's nuance to that. I mean, we can dive into some of the things that I teach around how you do that. But ultimately the old adage of leadership based on title, position, and authority, that is not effective in today's world. I work with, I have a unique vantage point for a lot of companies that I come in as the outsider. They're willing to kind of share with me what's working, what's not working because they want my message to resonate and I can tell you that it's not title or position that is driving most companies. It's not the ones who have influence. There's a different approach. The most effective, the most relevant leaders in today's world, they partner with their people and because of that, their people love them. [TYLER] I've had the opportunity to kind of generationally break this down. Because I think there's some generational changes here. Obviously, we're now, you and I are have an equal, same age. We're now looking at this like, oh, we're the bridges. I've talked between the baby boomers and the gen Z. They see the world totally different. Part of that, as I understand, is really our involvement in military, this idea of what we thought that was in leadership. The funny thing is I've learned is our general society has this idea, that leadership from a military point of view is very, very harsh, very, very almost cold. Yet, as I talk to people that have served in the Marines, Navy Seals, Air Force, they're like, it's anything but that. To get the most out people is really, you got to know that they care. And some of the Navy Seals, the guys that are Special Forces, they're the highest level, they're like, really rank is irrelevant. It is, do you care about me because I care about you? If we both care about each other, then when stuff starts going down, we're going to be protected. So to me, it's so interesting as you share that, that that's really what excels in business. It's not this, I am the CEO, I sit up here, you do what I say that endears trust and like, oh, he's going to lead me wherever. If anything, it spoils that. [TY BENNETT] It was interesting, so tomorrow I'm speaking to a group, it's a healthcare group and I had a call with the CEO. They're a small company start-up kind of going from small to big. They've got good funding. And he wanted me to come in to speak to his leadership team. I said, okay, and as we start talking about that, I said, okay, how many people are going to be there, said, "I'm struggling to figure that out because what I don't want to do is invite people to this exclusive event and then as we grow and expand, maybe not give them the promotion that they think they are in line for." I said, "Okay, unpack that more for me." We start talking about it and I said, "Let me just explain my leadership approach. I believe that everyone on your team needs to step up as a leader. I believe that we need to partner with each other and what I'm going to talk to them about is building relationships with each other, building trust and accountability. I'm going to talk about giving everyone a voice within the organization. I'm going to talk about how their job is to remove inhibitors for those on their team so that they can be more effective." I said, "So my perspective is I'd invite anybody and everybody that you want to grow in their leadership acumen, because I'm not going to talk about title or position at all." He was like, "Oh, well then yes, that changes my whole approach to how we're having this meeting." I was like, but that's, we're still stuck in that mentality quite often, in terms of that hierarchical approach. I'm not saying that titles can't be within organizations. I've worked with companies that are trying the approach of like just the flat org chart and it's a hard thing too. We all have roles and things, but the approach to leadership needs to be different. And it's not demanding. It's how do we engage people and get the most out? People just have too many choices. I mean, if I don't like the situation I'm in, I can leave. I mean, statistically, they, actually, if you graduate from college this year in the United States, you'll hold over 40 jobs in your lifetime. I mean, which is nuts when you think about it, but the companies that retain good people, that grow long term it's because the leadership starts to understand that. [TYLER] Well, I mean, it's one of those things, if that is held say 40 jobs, okay, over your working career, we're going to say 45 years give or take whatever. It may be more. And that's one every year. It's like, that's taxing on both parties. That's taxing on the person that's moving from job to job. That's taxing for the company that's going through that process. So it's really, it comes back to this adage and I think part of the responsibility I've learned through doing this podcast from people is it's really the leader's job to say, "Hey, how am I helping you grow? Well, if I'm helping you grow, you're either going to grow here or you're going to grow out of here. That's fine too." Because if you're not growing or in trouble, I look at that from the standpoint of what you just said, if someone's going to go through 40 jobs, how can you do 37 at our organization? Meaning how can you grow within what we're doing? Maybe you're in a different place because you're learning and growing, but if you culturally fit, you're going to say, "I want to fit here somehow." To throw another analogy here real quick, it's kind of like the kid who starts off in youth sports and he's the biggest kid and he is the offensive lineman and then he doesn't grow anymore. Then all of a sudden, he's the skinny, strong kid who, by the end of his career, he is the quarterback. Yet there's a big difference in positions and yet there's still serving that team. Man, what have we thought about that organizationally? [TY BENNETT] I like that. I like that thought for sure. I think leaders, jobs, I mean, a big part of our job is to grow the leadership within our organization. The book that I'm currently writing is titled Leader of Leaders. It's all about how do we build the leadership within organization, because ultimately we can't be in this mode where as a leader, your job is to constantly coach and mentor and give example of here's how you do it. We eventually have to move them to where they're empowered, they're ready to go and just off getting the job done and effective in that way. I really like that thought. [TYLER] Well, that ties into something that I've experienced lately. It's, I just went through and we went through five levels of leadership and I think what you're talking about is really understanding that fourth level, the people development, the leader of leaders. Because I think we can, that's a hard one that. As is I read the book Lights Out, I don't know if you've read that about GE. It was really fascinating for not understanding much, but one of the things that came back is understanding this transition between Jack Welch to Jeff Mill and then beyond. And one of the things afterwards that Welsh kind of admitted is like, "I probably didn't do as good a job going through that transition process." It's one of his quotes and paraphrased. But to me that comes back to us, how do you really make sure that you're doing the greatest people development, leading leaders? I know you have a framework. I'd love for you to break that apart because when I saw that I'm like, it really gave me kind of license to do something. And once you're talking about I'll discuss that, but I thought it was great as relaying this idea of how to help leaders lead other leaders? [TY BENNETT] I completely agree. So the framework that I look at is how do we do this daily? As a leader, I'm busy and I have different people on my team. And how do I get to the point where I can assess where they're at, their capability, the risk of this project. If I just hand it over to them, is this something that I can risk failure or I can't risk failure? How do I assess where they are and then understand what they need so that I can lead them effectively, but consistently move them up that ladder, if you will? So we break down specifically, when I look at that, do I need to model leadership? Is that modeling, like, let me show you exactly how to do it, or the let's do it together and I'll show you as we go through it? Then can I move them to a point where I'm coaching them? They're the player on the field, but I'm involved. I'm here, I'm walking you through the steps, but you're the one doing the work because you're effective. You understand the basic skills that you need to do that. Then eventually can I move to a more consulting model where it's macro management. I'm stepping back and I'm here if you need me, but this is your baby. Go and take it and when you need, when you hit a wall, come back to me and let's discuss it. But even in that, I'm not just going to give you solutions. We're going to brainstorm together. I'm going to ask questions. I'm going to try and help you to continue to take control of this and step out of it. Then eventually, can I just empower you? You know everything you need to know, you're probably better at this than I am. Here's what we need. Go and do. That's it. I'm just here, come back and report at the end and let's get the job done. So I think there's stages of leadership and there's different approaches and with that inherently different principles and values that go along with the leadership ability in those stages and the modeling and coaching side of it's really micromanagement. People go, I hate that term. People would say, I never want to be micromanaged, but those same people they ask for it because they say, how do you do this? Or can you help me with this? Or can you show me exactly how to do this? What they're saying is please micromanage me. They're not going to say it in that way, but micromanagement has its place because in early leadership development stages, you have to be hands on. Then eventually you move them to a macro where you're more hands off and they're taking the lead, but it's because you've put in the work and you've shown them exactly how to do that. So there's a model that we've developed to really break that down to be able to assess where they are and understand on that quadrant the way you need to approach that. And each person's, again, it applies this idea, what we were talking about earlier, the individualistic approach to leadership, understanding where they are, their skills, their deficits, their needs, all of those things, and then being able to help move them along the process. [TYLER] In my experience, what I've seen is people are really quick to go from the step before modeling to identifying maybe, and then all of a sudden empowering. They're like, I just, because that is not micromanagement as opposed to no, if you really understand the apprenticeship of teaching, which you laid out that is modeling for them. But then don't stay there. Get to the next step when that person's ready and then the next step. I think that is the opportunity as leadership development and growth, is that you have to be moving through the different steps. If you aren't, then you need to stop and say, okay, let's both identify Ty, why am I still in this modeling phase? It's because of my own control issues or because you, I'm not teaching it right." And I think that that comes into maybe discussion as you've gone through this. If you've seen that same problem, what's the barrier there? What holds people in that? I believe it's insecurity. I want to lay that out there if you don't, but what is that that holds people into that micromanagement that I want to model and coach model and coach, as opposed to getting into the consulting empowerment, because that's when you really can evolve as an organization? [TY BENNETT] Letting go of control is tough. I mean, I think we all have some of that in us. And there might be ego go in that, there might be insecurity in that, there might be pride in the work they're trusting in some of those things, but just changing the way we see people and the evolution of that, we can go back to our kids analogy. My 15 year old daughter, like letting go the reins a little bit is kind of, it's scary a little bit with those things. She's driving. I mean, not on her own yet, but just some of those next step things. For example, last year as a freshman in high school she got into student government. So she's the freshman class president and like literally the first day of summer, a senior boy shows up at my doorstep and is like, "Hey, I'm here to pick up Andy for this meeting." I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Who are you? This is just like this huge step that I was like, what is going on? So I think some of that is just the evolution of that being okay with that. It takes a level of maturity from a leader to be able to let go those things to not be the one getting the credit, to be able to celebrate others and see, be excited about their success, to let go of control. Those things are not easy. In fact, when we break down, I say, weeks, I'm writing this book with somebody else, but when we break down the principles around when you get to those stages of consulting and empowering, those are most of the principles. It's like, get out of your own way as a leader. It's much less to do with how you affect them and more to do with how you manage your internal stress that's going on as you're stepping aside to a different role. [TYLER] Especially if you've been in a position to where that's where your value is, that's where you're seeing fulfillment. If you're in a position to say, "Hey, I'm only valuable to this organization if I'm to use the same terms here, modeling and coaching," in reality is as you grow as a person, all of a sudden now your value starts to layer into the empowerment. It's like a parent. It's your value. It's when your daughter can say, huh, you can go drive by yourself. I trust you and I know that you know what to do and make those decisions. But if you need help, we can circle back to that modeling. Great. I'll be there, but we've gotten to the point of empowerment and all of a sudden, as a parent it's like, "Oh, what's my responsibility now?" To me, that's where I believe through my personal experience, it was laid in insecurities. Because I didn't know what my value was. I didn't understand what value I had. So I thought it was in this case, very much that modeling, coaching, what I knew. And it wasn't the fact that I could facilitate it. It wasn't the fact that I could just connect someone. It wasn't the fact that I could just cheer someone along on. I didn't understand I had value there. And that was the big barrier for me. As I mentioned to you earlier about why describe empathy the way it is, putting your arms around people, because that was the cure to my insecurity. It's like, oh, when I see empathy as admitting my insecurities, being open with it, being vulnerable enough to say, "Hey, we're going to go, I can't do this alone. We do this together," then all of a sudden you have a little bit more of that buy-in because it's a partnership. [TY BENNETT] Yes. I think you're right. I think the leaders' biggest struggle is themselves. We get in our own way. And doing the work, I mean, I love this conversation. I feel like we could have this for days but doing the work where we, you dive in and you assess what's working, what's not working, where am I, what do I really value, where do I add value, all of those things, those are the leadership conversations, internal thought process, dialogue that really take you to the next level. So if anybody's listening to this, one, I commend them because they're diving in enough to go, okay, this is important. I want to have this conversation, these are the leaders that start to run organizations and start to grow in that leadership acumen. They're not the ones who are going to have 40 jobs in their lifetime. They're the ones that are going to grow within that organization and help to build that culture that make it work. I commend you for that because those are not easy things to recognize and to assess and to find the solution to and to change your perspective on. [TYLER] It's hard. It's not without black eyes and scrap noses and faces. But no, that's, when you're willing to go through that. Again, I have to refer to this because I think it's so great. I can't take credit for it. Brad Lomenick told me about it. He goes, the CEO of today is the one that stands in front of the room and throws his arms up and says, "I have sweaty pits. I have sweaty pits. I admit it, I have sweaty pits, but you know what? I'm not concerned. I'm not scared. I'm just hot, sweaty or whatever, but everyone in this room, I know we can figure this out together, because I believe in you and believe in you and believe in you. So all of us collectively together, we can make this happen." The CEO of old is the one that stands in front of the room, shows no sweat, shows no any vulnerability at all and it's like, "I have all the answers." Because the reality is they don't have any of the answers because if they had all the answers, they wouldn't need the people in the room. I think that's, in this evolution and growth, this generational chain, the more that guys like you can talk about this, the healthier those organizations get to where all of a sudden we do have that culture of growth and true vulnerability and empathy and being authentic and saying, oh, let's do this together. Because that's, what's going to create a society and a culture that is healthy and not broken. Those are my thoughts, my opinions. [TY BENNETT] No for sure, I completely agree. It's funny, when I speak on Partnership is the New Leadership, especially if I'm speaking to like lower mid-level management, which I often am, one of the biggest comments I get back is people come up and they say, "My boss really needs to read your book. How do I share it with them in a way that doesn't seem like I'm trying to change him or her?" But it's because some of it may be generational, but some of it is just mindset. It's been perspective. I think that anybody who arrives at a place of power is open to the temptation of what that power can mean to them or how that can start to take control and we feel like sometimes to get the job done, we just need to say, this is how it is and let's move forward. But ultimately we don't understand how to truly get the most out of people. So it's a process. It's a constantly evolving process and it's interesting because 10 years from now, we might be having this conversation and going, it's interesting. Think about how much we've evolved and think about the conversation we're having now and what is the CEO of today look like now compared to what it was 10 years ago. Hopefully because growth happens and that's what it's all about. [TYLER] Well, I mean to me that transformation happened because others were willing to share what I needed to see and that's how that process started. I knew and know that that can't be done alone. So people like yourself that have the master class, have the ability to bring people together and say, "Hey, let's have these open discussions," it's what I'm trying to create in this community to say, "Hey, let's get around and let's talk about this. Let's go through what we're going through and be vulnerable enough that, oh, I need to identify the things that just feel yucky. I need to identify the things that I push," and being humble enough to do that. It's where I've got to this point. I think there's two words that we just don't understand in society yet we throw them around a lot. It's what humility is and what empathy is. I think they're the two identified words because we really don't comprehend what they are and yet that's the biggest difference to me. And really healthy leadership is the leaders that live out being a humble leader, the ones that really aren't empathetic and understand what that means. I think that's, and I look at your work and you're identifying that. You're identifying it in different ways to break that down and evolve forward. [TY BENNETT] So I really like your definition of empathy. I have my own thoughts on humility, but I'm curious what your definition of humility is. I completely agree that humility and empathy are so crucial for leaders. So give me your thoughts on how you would define it. [TYLER] I really, it's classic and trite. It's CS Lewis, is humility is not thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of others more. I think it is played out in the way of, I can admit, man, I'm wrong and I'm wrong because I've either hurt you or maybe you didn't understand this. I'm not wrong in the fact that I'm not able to have those opinions. I just, with what I knew was wrong. So again, I come back to that idea. It's not thinking less of yourself. You have to think enough of yourself with confidence because if you don't think of yourself with confidence, you're not serving anyone. You're not really helping anyone, but then understand, oh, I got to think of you more and maybe I was wrong in what I thought, because it hurt you. Well, I need to be humble enough to accept that. [TY BENNETT] Yes, I'll add to that. So the word humility comes from the root of the word humus, which is like dark, rich soil, very fertile for growth. Humble leaders are growth oriented, which means they're teachable. Which means they're, they're constantly learning, which is exactly what you're describing because that means I can make mistakes. That means I can be wrong. That means that others have answers and I want to just keep learning and growing. That's what it's all about. So I'm going to approach it from that standpoint. I don't have all the answers because we're all growing. So we're going to evolve together in that process, [TYLER] Which I think layers into the idea of partnership. Because if you're saying, "Hey, I have more to learn," I think one of the keys to empathy is being curious to just, I want to know. That's that learning attitude. That's that growth. I got to have growth. Help me understand. I don't know all the answers. I can't possibly know all the answers. It's just not possible. And the day that I think I do, man, I'm in big trouble. It's being willing to say, "Hey what do you see that I don't see?" Because I think that's one of the big understanding factors too, is we all have blind spots. And if I'm willing to say, "Hey, Ty, what am I missing? What am I not seeing that you're seeing? Help me understand what I can't see." It's, yes there's a lot of people that are tearing down leaders today, tearing down leaders in our country, tearing down leaders today, tearing down leaders in our country, tearing down leaders in our world. And one of the things that I really have to stop and think is like, I could disagree with maybe what they're doing from my perspective, but I also understand I'm not sitting where they're sitting. So I can't possibly know all the things they know. Now, if I were to go have a discussion with them and they were saying, "Hey, Tyler, here are six other factors that maybe you don't see and understand," I could be like, "Oh, okay. I still may not agree, but now I have a different perspective why you decided to do what you did." [TY BENNET] Yes, makes sense. For sure. As I'm listening to this, I think there's so many good key takeaways. I mean, even just in some of the things that you just threw out, some of the key questions, if you were just to listen to the last five minutes of this and go, okay, there's four or five key questions that either you said, or I said, just like that question of what are you seeing that I'm not seeing, if every leader were just to say, "I'm going to put that into my vocabulary this week, I'm going to ask that question three or four times to key people on my team and gain a little bit different perspective," it just opens your eyes. It just changes how you approach things and even just creates a dialogue that maybe never existed in the culture that you've created before. I'm a big proponent that people support what they help create. That doesn't mean every decision involves every single person within an organization because functionally, that often doesn't work depending on the size of the organization. But what it does mean is that your people feel like they have a voice And because of that, they feel empowered and they feel a sense of ownership. I talk about commitment a lot. Another word for commitment would be ownership, and how do you create a sense of ownership? Because as somebody who has only ever really owned my own companies, I've never like gone and worked for someone else in a job setting. I take a sense of ownership because it's mine. But how do I create a sense of ownership with other people? Because people don't show up and clean same way when it's not theirs. They don't show up and give the same effort when it's not theirs. They don't look at things in the same way, because at the end of the day, it's not theirs. They put in their time and they leave and they don't have to think about it again. That's something that's constantly on our mind, how do we create that sense of ownership? And just some of that dialogue changes just the whole perspective, because they, all of a sudden feel heard. They feel like their opinion matters. So they start to look at it differently and we start to create this leadership mindset, this ownership mindset, where we're starting to say, okay, how would I do this? They start to think about it a little bit differently. [TYLER] It's so powerful when you see it. You can see it organizationally. The whole time you're talking about, I'm thinking about at home and I saw you had, and I'm just imagining, and I'm guessing, and I'm wondering, I saw for your son, you guys had a Ninja Warrior, like obstacle course in your backyard. I just wonder how much were they involved and how much was your son involved putting that together? [TY BENNET] I will tell you actually, my boys paid for the entire thing to be built. I mean, we're talking $3,800 as an investment into their training and their business. So they teach classes. This afternoon they will teach classes on that same course in our backyard. We sat down and designed the whole thing out together. They're involved in making decisions. Now, some of it I had to go, okay, but that doesn't actually fit here, let's look at dimensionally, what that looks like, that wouldn't work, or they would say, "What about this kind of obstacle? Okay, how do we actually build that?" Because what that involves is this much height or this much space or whatever. So starting to figure those things out, so fully involved. I would, you could sit down with my boys right now and they could put probably design a ninja warrior gym for you because they've done it and they understand it and they start to see some of those things in the conversation we're having constantly, as they earn money now. They've earned enough money to pay back their investment and then they're continuing to save in different things, but as make money, they constantly want new obstacles just for variety and that kind of thing. So one of the conversations we're always having is what do we not have? Now we have virtually everything that you would find in any kind of gym. I put our backyard up against most places. So when something new comes out, they're like, "Oh, we've never seen something that," or they have designs right now, one that we've talked about lots, but one that I think is legitimately a pretty cool obstacle design that we're going to talk to a company that makes obstacles about maybe taking that design, but they're always like trying to play with it and look at it. That kind sense of ownership to me, I don't, maybe they never do ninja again. I don't know but I look at it in terms of understanding it, conceptually from that standpoint, investing in their own time and money into it, knowing how to teach and turn it into a business and make something more of it. Like those are the lessons that I care about. Maybe they become the champion of ninja. Awesome. Maybe they win a million dollars on the show. Incredible. Maybe they just stop caring about it next year. I don't know. They're 11 and 12 years old. But ultimately they're learning lessons in that process. And it's the same model. I could sit down and go, okay, there are times I've modeled this, times I've coached this. Today as I showed them how to run classes, I was involved in it. Today I will be there when they start and then I'm leaving for my daughter's soccer game. They completely run the classes up. They know exactly how to do it. They're incredible at it. They're completely empowered. Now it's taken a year to get to that stage, but they're good to go. So yes, I don't know, it's the same model. [TYLER] Well, I think as you describe that, and I've seen that with my own kids, when they do that, man, they're all in. And when they don't, then you're fighting. It's easier to see it in kids because they don't hold back as much as professionally. They're like, oh I can't fight with my boss. I got to hold back. But I'm disgruntled and I'm thinking about resigning and leaving all these things happening. It's like, dude, it's the same thing. It's been told start with 10%, let them do the other 80%, come put the cherry on top and great. But yet that brings in so much buy-in. To me that is the epitome of partnership. It's being, say, you got to buy in. I got to buy in because if not, it goes back to me describing empathy earlier, if I'm trying to drag you with my arm around it, this isn't working. If you're trying to drag me with my arm around it's not working. We got to be in lockstep. [TY BENNET] It's interesting. So I just started a coaching company called relevant speaker with two other guys. We're teaching people how to be speakers. There's so many people who have asked me over the years, how do you become a speaker? How do you develop a message? How do you market? Like all those things? So myself and Chad Hymas are both speakers and then another gentleman named Donny Salazar. He's a speaker as well, but understands the back side of the coaching business better than we do. And we were having some conversations early on and what Donny proposed to us was like, I'd love to have a little bit of ownership in the company. I don't know if it's like 45, 45, 10 or what that looks like. Anyways, we started going down those conversations and then we started talking about salaries and different things. I looked at and I said, "Donny, in my mind, all three of us are partners. So I don't know why we wouldn't just be partners in this, but that also means that I'm not paying you a salary because we're partners. So we all invest into this and we all get out of it, what we make out of it." It was interesting because sometimes you could look at that and go, okay, that conversation is maybe not what they want to hear. And he was like, "Ugh, I've been waiting to hear that. That's the conversation, that's what I wanted in this whole thing." And what I was asking him was to sacrifice more financially, to get it going than any other approach. But that's what he wanted. He wanted a sense of ownership. He wanted to be part of it. I think most people do. I think most people want to be engaged and involved and feel like they kind of have that control and so where we can give that, I think is important. [TYLER] I would say as I'm think about it, that the place where people wouldn't is where they don't feel safe. If you haven't done something from an authenticity, humility, from a values point of view, empathy, is where they probably don't want that is if they don't feel safe. But if they feel safe, whatever happens and I'm guessing Donny, and I know Chad as well, if he feels safe with you guys, that whatever happens, there's not going to be something weird happening. Absolutely. I want that. I think about it, if you and I are talking about that is if we feel safe, great, let's go. If after the chips fall, we're all good, to me, I think that comes to how do you help people be safe? Well, you're honest with them. You're humble about it. You care about them. You're partner with them. It isn't I'm trying to hold this over you. [TY BENNET] I think a big part of that just, as I'm listening to that, I think a place where a lot of leaders struggle is just being themselves in every area of their life, being the same person in your public, private, secret life, living those values. If I don't show up with certain values because I'm in a leadership position, that's who I am and that's how I live. And our world is not compartmentalized anymore. We see everything. I mean, I get on a phone call with a CEO for company I'm going to speak for and they're like, "Hey, I just saw that it was your daughter's birthday." I'm like, how did you, oh, social media, or whatever it is. They just, our world is that. So all of what we're talking about are great leadership ideas, but they're better human and ideas. And for you to be the kind of person who has influence in any realm of your life or in all realms of your life, you have to step up to that because that's the world that we live in now. [TYLER] Whether we understand it or not, we can sense when people aren't. When someone shows up in one spot and they don't show up the same in another spot, our senses, red flags go off. We may not be able to pinpoint it. We may not understand, but psychologically, we're built that way. [TY BENNET] We have a strong BS meter for whatever reason. But I also, you can tell when somebody's comfortable in their own skin. And I talk to speakers about this all the time, is that's a hard thing to teach, but it comes from congruency. And when you're on stage that comes across to people. It's not, you're not sharing ideas as conceptually, this is what I've come up with that I think you need to hear or want to hear. You're not sharing hypothesis. You're sharing what you're trying to live. Now, we're not all perfect in it. We can be real about that but we also, in that reality, can share mistakes in the attempt to live those principles and those types of things too. That congruency is so vitally important. [TYLER] As I speculate on that, that to me is when we identify and accept and share our insecurity, we all have insecurities, every single person has an insecurity, every single one, believe that. When we can get our arms around it and say, okay, here's my Superman kryptonite and share that, all of a sudden, it doesn't have that power over you and people are like, "Oh, thank you for admitting it because I knew it the whole time. I just didn't know what it was. I just knew you were." That's where to me, play that, every single person is having that empathy. Because if I'm willing to share with you my insecurities, well, then all of a sudden we're a partner and say, oh, okay, I'm a partner with you and have that empathy [TY BENNET] Well, and that story gives perspective. It's hard to dislike somebody when we really understand their story, because most of the time, most people aren't jerks. I mean, some people are sure and if you learn that and you don't like, them great move on. But most of the time people have a reason that they're acting the way they're acting or they're doing what they're doing, or they're choosing what they're choosing. If you can understand that story and that perspective, then you can go, oh, okay, I get that. Again, maybe I don't agree. Maybe I would do it differently, but at least I see where they're coming from. At least I understand why they're choosing what they're choosing and why it turned out that way. [TYLER] Ty, I've taken up a lot of your time. I appreciate you sharing it for me. This has been fun. It's been great. I hope this is one of many and thanks for sharing so much today. [TY BENNET] Yes, yes, absolutely. I love what you're doing and love the conversation. Thanks for your insights as well. [TYLER] Well, until the next time, let's keep it going and again, appreciate it. Can't wait to share all your information where people can find out more about you, your books, everything you have coming. Excited about the new book coming. When's that going to be out? [TY BENNET] That is a solid question right there my friend. It's a work in progress. So we're going, it'll be next year. It won't be this year. [TYLER] Well, sometimes it is best push on the shelf to simmer and lasagna the second day is always better. [TY BENNET] We need to get the job done. It's ready to go, but yes, definitely, getting closer. [TYLER] All right. Awesome. Well, thank you and appreciate it. I think one of the greatest pieces of that conversation with Ty was just to see the fact of the congruency, the experiences he's had, and he's learned as we shared about that. The industry of direct sales, most people don't know, network marketing don't know. They have this weird kooky, icky feeling. I believe that's because of how people have present it. Maybe you've had a presentation of network marketing. Trust me, this is not a network marketing podcast, not what I'm about, not at all. Yes, I have a business, network marketing business. I love it, and that's just a part of what I do, but I also understand it has tremendous value. Ty talked about it. I talked about it, but here's the other thing that I've learned. We can learn leadership skills in every part of our life. I believe the greatest barrier to leadership is insecurity and the greatest way to get over that is practicing empathy. To me, that's being curious. Ty and I talked about it. It's putting your arms around people and walking with them. I loved when he shared his new project, what he's working on, the modeling, coaching, consulting, and empowering. That's something that I've already shared with people. I've already shared with people right after we got off this podcast. I'm like, this is a great lesson that I've learned. I hope you got value from that too. If you're getting value from these podcasts, I'd love to invite you to be a part of the Impact Driven Leader book club, and round table. We've got a few more months left of this year. We've had a great experience. I'm gearing up for what 2022 is going to look like. I know it's going to be even more valuable as I stop and think, and I have conversations with people. I'm so thankful the value that I get talking to people and learning and growing. I hope you get the same. Thanks for joining. Please remember to give me a review, give me a rating. I'd love to know that how am I doing? I've had people share with that. I'd love for you guys to share that via the reviews and ratings so other people can find value in this podcast as well. And until next time, have a great day. Thanks for being here. Well, I'm back. I forgot. Hey, if you want to know more about Ty, please go check out the Impact Driven Leader podcast. There, you can find the show notes. Go to tylerdickerhoof.com/podcast. You can find all the notes, all the previous episodes as well there. And did you know you? I also send an email out weekly with some of my thoughts about the podcast, podcast guest. You can go to my website. You can subscribe for that newsletter. It's something I send out every Friday, whenever new episodes release. So make sure you go do that.