IDL46 Season 1: Be Confident, Be Vulnerable with Jordan Montgomery
Where does inner strength come from? How can you use your story to impact other people without being self-centered? What is the best way to ask for feedback to receive an honest answer?
Jordan and I have known about each other for a year or so, and it’s fitting that this episode is all about Connection. We have both had the opportunity to connect through helping, and it’s often the case that in helping someone they have truly connected with them. It's this principle that we talk about today. Supporting someone, and connecting with them.
Jordan Montgomery, owner of Montgomery Companies, is a highly regarded performance coach and keynote speaker. Jordan travels the country speaking and coaching people at all levels of industry; executives at Fortune 500 companies, professional athletes, and sales people.
In addition to his work speaking and coaching, Jordan is an accomplished business leader who has managed top-performing sales teams in the financial services industry. In 2020, Jordan was named a Top 20 Entrepreneur by Yahoo Finance.
Visit the Montgomery Companies website. Connect on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
Everyone has a backstory
“You-centered” communication
Ask for feedback
Everyone has a backstory
“The power of vulnerability. It’s often the first thing that I look for in you but it’s the last thing I want you to see in me. The crazy part is people can be impressed with your strengths but they connect to you through your weakness. So if you’re a leader that desires to connect with people, we have to learn to put our brokenness on display, talk about it, and be vulnerable. ”
Each person that you see around you, including those that you look up to, and the people that pretend they have everything figured out, all have backstories.
Look for the people that share theirs with you and are truly vulnerable because it is those people that you know are sincere. If someone is acting tough and never sharing their vulnerable aspects with you, then you know that they are struggling with themselves.
“When you have a posture of humility and a willingness to be vulnerable, I think you can [impact] people for good.”
A sign of maturity and strength is to share problems with others. It is often in moments of vulnerability that the greatest change can be accessed.
“You-centered” communication
Be mindful of overusing “you-centered” communication where you only talk about yourself and other successful people instead of the folks in front of you.
“The only reason you’re saying that is to make yourself feel better. Managers make me feel like “they” are special, leaders make me feel like “I” am special. Your job is to make the people in the room feel special, it’s about them, it’s not about you … instead of … “my, my, my” and “I, I, I” say, “here’s what I would love for you to think about”. ”
Talk about them, talk about things that could be beneficial to them and their lives instead of only talking about your own life. Encourage them to think about the things that they are great at and can build upon.
As much as sharing your story is important and creates vulnerability, there is a balance between sharing your story to encourage people to develop their lives and simply being self-centered.
Ask for feedback
There is a helpful way and an unhelpful way of asking for feedback from someone. How you ask this question will determine how honest an answer you receive.
Do not ask for feedback as a masked attempt for praise, be real about it, because then you receive real answers.
Instead of asking “can I get some feedback on …”, try: “I have been trying to do this differently, could you provide me some feedback on this area that I am working on?”
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
BOOK | Bob Burg and John David Mann – The Go-Giver: A Little Story About a Powerful Business Idea
Visit the Montgomery Companies website
Connect with Jordan on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.
The Impact Driven Leader YouTube Channel
Join the Impact Driven Leader Community
Connect with Tyler on Instagram and LinkedIn
Email Tyler: tyler@tylerdickerhoof.com
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
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My identity had been tied to my work, my achievement, my reputation in business and the marketplace. It’s been said that if you live for their praise you’ll die by their criticism.
Jordan Montgomery
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER]
Hey there. Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. So glad that you're tuning in today to listen. Glad to be here today with you as well. I'm so stoked to share this conversation with today's guest, Jordan Montgomery. Jordan, and I have known about each other for a year or so, two years, I don't know. You're going to hear about it in this episode.
I love unpacking this one element in this episode and its connection. Jordan and I have had the opportunity to connect. We've been able to help each other connect with different people for one reason, for one reason, as I see both on each of our hearts and I see Jordan absolutely living this out. As he shares, as we get into, as we talk a little bit about this idea of connection and really trying to serve people is if I know someone and I'm able to help them, man, something will turn out good from it.
I learned that lesson from The Go-Giver, the book by Bob Burg. In that book, he profiles a businessman who no, one's really sure what he ever does, but yet he's always in the midst of those relationships, connecting people. I know when I read that book the first time and when I had the opportunity to interview Bob, that was something that I really aspired to do and it's part of this conversation with Jordan that I hope you guys gather, listen to and really find great inspiration from is even in our darkest times, our ability to serve others can be simply as saying, "Hey, do you know my friend, Jordan?" "I know Jordan, and you have a lot in common. I think you guys could help each other. Or maybe I think you guys would enjoy being around each other."
If you get nothing else from today's episode, I really hope you get them. Because one of the things that I've learned is when we're able to value others and see the value they have and make those relationships, those connections, you're not used up for nothing. People come back to you and say, "Man, I appreciate that so much." To me, that's part of making an impact. That's part of being an Impact Driven Leader. I hope you get value out of today's episode, because I know I sure did sitting down having a great conversation with Jordan.
[TYLER]
All right. I am excited to speak with today's guest. Here's a guy that, it's funny Jordan, and I don't know if I've shared this with you, but today's guest is Jordan Montgomery. You've already heard that in the intro. I'll share it here again. Jordan, have I shared how I got to know who you are? I'm going to put you a little bit on the spot here.
[JORDAN MONTGOMERY]
I don't know. You tell me.
[TYLER]
You must not know. So about oh, I would say year, year and a half ago I was working on my own personal branding, who Tyler Dickerhoof is, the Impact Driven Leader was working with an amazing service provider. Her name is Amber with Copper Heart Creative. If you guys are looking for someone, she does phenomenal. It's somehow along the way, I had found out who Jordan was on Instagram and I'm guessing it was through John Ruland a mutual friend. And where this so vividly sticks out to me is Amber asking me, "All right, Tyler, who are people that are kind of in the same space?" I'm like, "Well, I don't know if we're in the same space, but I look and see what Jordan does and I really admire it." She's like, "Oh, okay, I'll go look at what Jordan's doing and just kind of have an idea." So that was before we even got to really know each other, that's how you came on my radar.
[JORDAN]
That's awesome man. Well, it's funny you say that because there's been a mutual respect, I think for both of us, the work that you do, the content that you post. And here's one thing I'll say too, is you are so consistent in everything that you do, but you're consistent in the way that you share. Like when I pop open Instagram or my social media channels and apps, I just see your face and I see your name and you are putting out great, positive, meaningful content into the world. So brother know that it goes both ways.
[TYLER]
Well, I appreciate that. It is the fact that I get to sit down with people like you and you've been so gracious to connect me with a handful of others that have now been guests, this relationship that we've developed and didn't realize it. But what I see is there's so many parallels, so many different things. Yes, you're a few years younger, but as I see as you've gone through your journey there's a lot of things that you've had your down and out moments.
I've read about it, I've seen it, I've heard you talk about it and yet I also know that hasn't gotten you down. I'd love for you to talk about kind of your journey, but this idea, and we're talking on the Impact Driven Leader podcast about making an impact and how we can essentially rise from our ashes, per se. For me, it was getting kicked in the guts moment. For you maybe it was different. But really how, from that point, this idea of that you know what, man, there's something for me to share out of this to help and serve others. So I'd love to kind of learn about that from you.
[JORDAN]
Well, for so many listening, they know that your mess can become your message and oftentimes our deepest hurt becomes our greatest ministry. I think about how God uses unlikely people in really powerful ways. I think that's been my story. Like I've just seen God do some crazy things from the ashes and in my brokenness. And here's the cool part of out the Lord, is He doesn't need to use us, but He chooses to use us? I'm just reminded of that, like when I start to get a little bit prideful or I start to think too highly of myself as like, "Hey Jordan, actually God doesn't need you to do anything, to move His kingdom forward or to reach people or to create change in this world."
So I'll just say this it's an honor to be used. It's an honor to get to share with people like you. It's an honor to even be able to respond to that question of, "Hey how has your journey shaped you?" And part of me is like, who am I to even respond to a question like that or to be on this podcast with you? But it is an honor. And yes, for me, and you know the story well, Tyler, but for those listening who maybe don't know the story, I was 27 years old and my sort of moment, my defining moment came when I got fired from my job, I was on top of the world or so I thought.
I was living in the proverbial penthouse, running a big financial services firm, very much living for the ways of the world, storing up treasure here on earth that was never going to last. I was taking a lot of pride in my bank account and my network and my status professionally. When all of that came crashing down almost overnight on April 1st, 2015, it rocked me from the inside out. It was really an identity crisis because my identity had been tied to my work and my achievement and my reputation in business and the marketplace. I'm so glad that God changed that about my life.
It's been said that if you live for their praise, you'll die by their criticism. That was me. I was living for the praise of people and so when that was taken away from me, I was also then dying by their criticism, by the rumors and by the remarks and by the questions. Because my fall from grace was so public, I had to respond to a lot of questions and I had to deal with sort of the rumor mill. I went from speaking four or five times a week to all these different firms in my industry to speaking zero times. I went from having a lot of influence to zero influence, and I sort of just went into hiding.
What happened was there was a member of my team that took a test on my behalf and didn't report it. I was just casual. I didn't do anything intentional or malicious, but I was running so hard and so fast. I wasn't slowing down to dot the I's and cross the T's and just honor people around me. The speed and the pace was just unhealthy. Eventually it caught up with me and my world sort of fell apart. There's a cool way that that story ends. We can talk about that too, Tyler, but the fall from grace was getting fired, losing a lot of money. Within about 48 hours, I went from being an executive leader at a Fortune 100 firm to standing on the door of bankruptcy, having lost millions of dollars. I can talk about the details of that story, but I can also look back now and say it was one of the greatest blessings of my life.
[JORDAN]
You know that's, I know when you had me as a guest, we shared some of my own journey in that and kind of looking back and say, would you change it? For me, I said, no, because it wouldn't be the person I am today to serve people. I hear from you there is like, no, I wouldn't go back and change it. It sucked, I made mistakes, but man, it's from that, that I can learn to serve people better. There's something I read today. So today we're recording on a Thursday and this comes from James and it's his weekly newsletter.
If you don't subscribe to it, I highly recommend it. I get such great information. He talks about this here. I think it ties into what you're saying. It is entirely possible to have too many clients too much work, too much fame, too much free time and so on. Pay attention when the thing you're chasing exceeds its usefulness. So as you were sharing that, and I thought about that, you know I've been in those places where the rubber band is stretched so thin. As a leader, sometimes we can end up there because we're trying to do too much and what I hear from you is you were probably at that point and you're like, I just have to get this done and all of a sudden, some of the inherent pieces of you maybe slipped through the cracks because it was too much. Is that fair to say?
[JORDAN]
Totally fair to say. I love how you just unpacked that. And God bless James. His work is awesome, but yes, there's a leader listening right now that feels that way. There's a leader listening right now that feels stretched and overwhelmed and you're in a season where it is too much. To that leader, I just want to say, it's okay to say no. It's okay to take a break. It's okay to put it down and it's okay to rest. I think rest and recovery are essential parts of a healthy and productive life. As leaders, we got to remember that.
There's also somebody listening right now, Tyler who is broken and is in the middle of that defining moment and they're hurting and they're down and out. To that person, I just want to remind them that brokenness is a powerful position because now you're ready to learn and listen to people around you, to the voice of truth, to wisdom and discernment. So you're actually in a really powerful position and this will be used. It can be used for your good and for the good of others. So I hope that today, as we continue this conversation, that someone, at least one person finds this to be a blessing and maybe a journey that's not so great at the moment.
[TYLER]
There's a, she's a pastor, she's a speaker, she's an author and she has a business called Broken Crayon Still Color, Tony. As you were talking about that in your brokenness, I'm thinking of that vivid imagery of Broken Crayon Still Color. In your brokenness you can still make an impact. You can still make a difference and it's sometimes sharing your brokenness. It's sharing, oh yes, this is where I screwed up, that can actually do more to serve people than if you had not, meaning it's sometimes through all the failures that we can make the bigger impact.
So I want to hear from you, Jordan, as you've from that, as you've gone from, as you were sharing, you were speaking four or five times a week, and now you're doing that in a day where I've seen you on your road trips with some of our mutual friends where you're impacting people, what's the biggest lesson in that journey, that up and down roller coaster that you have the opportunity to share with people that you feel impacted, it's your purpose to share?
[JORDAN]
I think part of it is this idea that everyone is broken and nobody's talking about it. So I've just learned a lot over the last few years, Tyler, about the power of vulnerability. It's often the first thing that I look for in you, but it's the last thing I want you to see in me. We live in this world where people are sort of buttoned up and it's like, I want to put on my Sunday best every day of the week. I want you to see the best me on social media. I want you to see the best me when I'm with you, when I'm not with you. When you hear about me, I want you to see me at my best. The crazy part is people can be impressed with your strengths, but they connect to you through your weakness. So if you're a leader that really desires to connect with people and influence people and move people, then you have to learn, we have to learn to put our brokenness on display and to talk about it and to be vulnerable.
Brené Brown says courage isn't about putting on the armor. It's about taking the armor off. Vulnerability is this idea of being fully seen, it's showing up when you cannot control the outcome. And the coolest thing happens for us in our business when we decide to show up and talk about what really happened, the real story, the truth, the raw, down and out, totally broken, almost went bankrupt truth. Everything changed. Relationships changed, doors opened, opportunity knocked, things exploded for us, but it was because people were finally connecting to the message and they were moving toward us, instead of me acting like, "Hey, I've got it all figured out. Let me teach you how to build what you're building. Let me teach you some leadership principles."
Like I don't have anything to teach you. All I have is a story and I've got a bunch of borrowed principles from other people like Tyler, who've become friends that I've learned from, and I'm just a vessel. I just get to be a part of this journey that God has me on and it's a blessing to be used, on a podcast episode, at a speaking engagement. But boy, when you have a posture of humility and a willingness to be vulnerable, I think you can affect people for good. I'm going to throw that question back to you, Tyler, because your story's very similar in the fact that like, I know you've had to be vulnerable and you've had to open up and you've had to share some things about your life that have been hard and difficult. So what have you learned about going through that journey?
[TYLER]
Man, I thank you for asking. I mean, it's put me on the spot here, dude. I'm supposed to be the one asking the questions here, but as you're sharing that and I'm thinking about that's our great opportunity. I have this theory, I have this idea. There's people in my personal life close to me that don't understand it. I have zero issue making a fool of myself in service of others. Sometimes being a fool of yourself is just being vulnerable enough to say, oh I learned this from a mutual friend of ours, Brad Lomenick. He said the CEO today is the guy who stands in front of the crowd, raises arms in the air and shows off his sweaty pits.
If you are watching the video, you see that Jordan and I both have black shirts on. That is for a reason. You could look long and hard you're not going to see it, but I joke and realize that, let me just use that imagery. If I use this for you, Jordan, Jordan's this guy who's in the perfect tailored suit. He's got his hair done right, he's got this million dollar magnetic smile and he's standing there and it's like I got it all together. The reality is you were crumbling on the inside, because you were going, in your words kind of too fast in a way that you just, things got out of your control and was trying to do too much. Then all of a sudden, it's this brokenness as you talk about and that brokenness is taking off that suit and now you're just sitting here in this black shirt. I'm just another guy. I'm just another guy.
To me, when other leaders, if I think about yourself, myself, pretty confident in ourselves, but yet there's insecurity in ourselves because that's normal is when we can stand up and say, oh yes dude, let me tell you what I did. Let me tell you how bad this went. Let me tell you about this time that I just made an absolute fool of myself and I have to eat those words. That's what, like you said, people can relate to, but to me when you're comfortable doing that and you're comfortable saying I don't care what other people think about me, the reality is most people don't think worse of you than what you think of yourself. If they do, this has been my experience, I'd love for you to hear, I don't want to be around. I don't care who they are.
[JORDAN]
No doubt. People just want to know that you've got a little bit of them. Like they want to be able to relate and identify. Here's a cool story, Tyler. So we spent some time with Bob at the Oaks in San Diego, his place with Brad Lomenick and David nurse and some of our mutual friends. So I had never met Bob before and really excited to hear Bob speak. He's this famous author and speaker and he's got a big following and he's a really brilliant guy and this is how he opened up his talk. So there's 40 leaders sitting in a room, small audience for Bob and we're at his place. Like he should be in a very comfortable state. This is how he opens his talk.
"My name is Bob Goff and you should know this about me. I am massively insecure." And I thought it's so interesting. Here's one of the most influential people on the planet in America, especially in a personal development space and instead of trying to impress everybody, he just put his vulnerability out there, like I am massively insecure. In that moment everybody went, wow, I like this guy. I found myself going, I want to be around this dude because he's real.
And people would rather follow a leader who's always real than one who's always right. Craig Roelle, God bless him, it's true. So if you're a leader listening to the show, I say, what is that for you? What are you going to say when you're in front of an audience, in front of a group, one on one? How do you open up conversation and dialogue? When you're willing to share some of that stuff that you're like, I could never share this with anybody, oftentimes that's the very thing that you need to be voicing that will move people towards you. It is the craziest thing because it seems so backwards.
[TYLER]
You're willing to do something with me right now?
[JORDAN]
I mean I kind of.
[TYLER]
I want to share it. I mean, if you don't want to talk about it, but I'm not going to do something to like embarrass? So part of this podcast is have a round table where we read books and we're going through it. Today in the conversation that we had, the recording on a Thursday, that's when we do it and we start talking about a leader. I love how you shared this about Bob. It just showed me the example that, hey, that's as a leader. If you're in front of the room, again, that guy throwing up his arm and showing his sweaty pits, you want to model. And someone in the group they shared about this leader they have who comes in and what they'll do to connect with people is they'll start making jokes.
I don't know if you've been in that room. I don't know if you've have experiences or if you've done that yourself, but the leader was talking about this person who they come in and start making jokes and they start making craft jokes. Maybe they start making a little bit off color jokes, because more people laugh and they're really not sure how to laugh. This is the ideology that I came up with and I'd love for you and your experience to distill this down and say, all right, what works, what doesn't work? What I realized is when Bob made a comment about his insecurity and people probably said almost like a little bit of like really is this guy for real, like come on. Because Bob's kind of gregarious and funny and you're like, is he cracking a joke here?
What that did is he made fun of it. This is my interpretation and this is what I want to get feedback from you on, is he in his essence made fun of himself, but that brought everyone in. So instead of creating a fence where he would come in and he would maybe make a joke about bald guys or make a joke about guys with perfect teeth or whatever else, all of a sudden that starts fencing out that group. But instead he put the fence around him and he decided to take that down and just say, my armpits on the air, as opposed to a leader that comes in and makes a joke.
You try to make that joke to connect with people and all of a sudden you make fun of a group. You start creating a fence around that group and all of a sudden you're fencing people off and you're creating all these different segregated groups. That's what I learned today as I talk through this and as you share that. To me, how important is it for any leader to take down fences as opposed to make comments, to build fences? What have you seen or what do you think? Give me what you're thinking about that.
[JORDAN]
Yes, here's what I think the great leaders understand and remember, which is, by the way, this takes a lot of self-awareness and situational awareness. Because for anybody listening, if you've got influence, you are just you. You've been you your whole life. Inherently, you probably don't think you're special. Maybe you've got a little bit of an ego, but you're just you, but to a group of people, you're not just you. You're the person who they just read a bio about, who has the attention of 10 people or a hundred people or 200 people. You're out front. You've got to authority. The people listening to you have a certain sort of idea about what you've accomplished or what you've achieved and so you're kind of coming in hot.
Sometimes we forget that. When we make jokes, when we try to get people's attention and connect with them through a joke or especially something craft, it's almost like we lack self-awareness that they don't see us like we see us. Self-awareness is about how the world experiences you. It's tapping into, "Hey, this is how I'm being experienced right now." So if you remember that, like, I'll give you a prime example, Tyler. So I work with some college football teams. I don't look like I play college football. I'm 180 pounds, I'm a white dude who lives in Southeast Iowa with a hard part in my hair.
If I don't call attention to that, if I'm not in tune with they might be thinking, I'm going to miss with the audience. So I can get up there and say, "Hey, today, we're going to talk about mental performance and we're going to talk about being at your best. We're going to talk about leadership development. I'm going to give you the five leadership principles that I've learned on my journey." Well, all I'm doing is moving myself away from that audience.
And they already sort viewed me a certain way and now I'm just doubling down. This is the guy that probably is overly confident, that has a big ego, that's buying into the bio. But if, instead I say, "Gosh, guys, you know what? I've got a hard part. I didn't play college football. Actually, I live in Southeast Iowa. I'm a white dude who weighs 180 pounds and I don't feel super qualified to be in this room, but here's why I'm here. I really, really care about people or I care about leadership development or I'm passionate about helping people to be at their best. I'm not here to speak at you. I'm here to speak with you. I'm not here because I have all the answers I'm here because I'm obsessed with learning and growing. So I'm like you. I'm on a journey. I just want to confess that to you, as I share with you today."
All of a sudden, the room's like, okay, so he's like us. That fence you talked about comes down now. There's not a separation. Now there's proximity that builds intimacy and now that audience is ready to receive. So whether you are in a one-on-one situation or in a group setting, I think being able to just confess how you feel and just tear apart the bio and pull down the fence and talk about why you're not deserving to be in the room is actually super powerful. It's so backwards and we all forget it. I used to be that guy that would get up there and crack jokes and try to make people laugh. What I didn't realize is I was buying into the bio and I was actually creating separation with my audience.
[TYLER]
As you shared about Bob, as you shared right there, as I thought about this circumstance that was brought up, it's like, yes, you can see those separations coming. It's kind of like the person that, as you described, wanted to read into their bio. As I think about as a leader, I think about my own ability to influence. And something I want to tap into where you said earlier is this level of influence, decreasing and increasing. To me as I'm learning right now, one of the things I'm learning is we go through life and our influence increases. Then there's circumstances sometimes out of our control where influence decreases. What do we do if we're a leader? We want to increase our influence. So I want to hinge on that.
One of the things that I think you just shared there, that you can do to increase your influence is tear down more of those fences. Find ways to really connect with people. In my opinion, you're not increasing your influences, because there's actually more fences being build up. And sometimes it may not be by your actions. It's just what people are reading. But I'd love to know from you, when you went through that experience and you had this influence, and then it decreased, you mentioned earlier, I'd love to maybe have you reemphasize it, what are some of the things that you did to say, "Hey, I want to influence people because I want to help people." What did you do or what are you thinking about doing as you're trying to impact people?
[JORDAN]
Well, yes. I think part of it is recognizing this natural separation. So if I don't recognize that, if I don't have enough self-awareness to say, hey, when I speak to any group of people, five people, 10 people, a hundred, whatever, one on one, I mean, if I'm supposed to be in a position where I've got anything to give, there is a natural separation. So for anybody listening, I just say, just remember that. When you're in front of a group of people, there is a natural separation and they're thinking this person, this woman, or this man has something that they're supposed to give me, which means maybe they're more experienced than me. Maybe they have a different perspective or they've been more successful. All of that is creating disconnection.
So if we want to create connection, we kind of do, you have to do something to sort of poke fun at ourselves or confess an insecurity or share something that makes us human. That's what I think about, and that's how you grow influence. And when you share something that makes you human, really what you do is you honor the people in the room, because you're really saying, "Hey, I'm not any better than you. I'm not different than you. I'm not better than you. I don't have it figured out. Actually I'm a lot like you. I just tell you that I'm a lot like you. I've got insecurities, I'm anxious, I'm nervous, I'm learning, I'm growing. I'm just like you."
And you honor people and the people in the room feel honored. Then I think the other thing, if you really want to influence people that we got to pay attention to as communicators is we really have to focus on you centered communication. How many times as a leader get up in front of people and say, I want to tell you about what I've done, what I've learned on my journey, some of the athletes or corporate executives that I worked with, and here's what they do, and I did this speaking engagement, here's what I learned. I took this trip and what I learned when I was on that trip, as I learned this.
And it's all about them. It's like, dude, nobody cares. The only reason you're saying that is to make yourself feel better. Managers make me feel like they are special. Leaders make me feel like I am special. So your job is to make the people in the room feel special. It's about them. It's not about you. It's about them. So instead of saying, "Hey, here's what I've learned and this is my journey and my experience and my, my, my or I, I, I," it's, "Hey, here's what I'd love for you to think about. It's you consider where you are at and your leadership journey. I want you to consider the qualities and the character traits that you possess. I want you to think about what you are great at. I want you to think about the principles that you are executing on right now that allow you to have great influence."
So those are subtle pieces of communication that make a massive amount of difference. Number one, the influence that we have, but number two, the action that we drive and the way that people either buy in and move toward us or move away from us. So we're getting into maybe some nuances there of communication and influence but those are things that I really try to pay attention to and that I'm working on Tyler as I learn more about what creates influence and what creates separation
[TYLER]
Well, and I think it comes back and to bring this all full circle is the more that we call people in the more that we're going to be able to influence and impact and the more our vulnerability is worthwhile. The more that we try to separate, the more that we try to, as you're describing some of the self-awareness, as you're describing some of these situations as a leader where we can, we're trying to justify ourselves; to justify why are we there as opposed to, well, I don't know why I'm here, but this is what I hope to give you. If I hope to give you something, and if I want to add value to you, that's really kind of on you, but that's for me to like, not get too over myself. It's to me, we've talked about this before, the difference between connecting and networking, this difference of like, are you there to give or get. To me I'd much rather be in a situation to give as a way to serve but ultimately, as I've learned as a leader, that's how you really get.
[JORDAN]
Man, really powerful. I love how Brad Lomenick unpacks the difference of networking and connecting and I love what Bob Burg says about this word Sell. It comes from the old English word salon, which actually means to give. So if you're going to sell, if you're going to move people to action, if you're going to influence people, really what you're doing is you're giving and you're giving your time, your attention, your empathy, your counsel. You're providing value. So yes, man, I think connectors, people like you, here's what I know about Tyler; is Tyler gifts.
You're a great connector. You're others focused. You make people feel special. When I'm talking to you, you make me feel important. I don't get the sense that Tyler's got a bravado or you've got an agenda to elevate yourself. By the way here's, what's crazy is people who are really gifted don't need to tell everybody about it. You are naturally very gifted, God's given you some real gifts to communicate and to connect and I think you know that. So because you know that you don't have to tell people about it. When people want to tell me about their giftedness, I just immediately feel kind of sorry for people like that's insecurity rising up inside of you.
By the way, I know if you're gifted or not. We got to start giving people more credit. They know if you're gifted, they know if you're a good communicator, they know if you've got a great network, they know how you make people feel. They will know that almost immediately when they meet you. The minute we start to tell people how great we are, we start to tell people about our gift and as we actually detract from our influence, we detract from the relationship. I know some of what we're talking about is common sense, but I think there's this whole idea, that common sense isn't always common practice and it's good to be reminded of those things.
[TYLER]
Well, to me, it's a blind spot and my blind spots were exposed because I opened myself up to others to say, "Hey, I need help." I think that's really important in this journey of growing and developing is, as I think back about the journey that you shared is your blind spots were kind of exposed whether you wanted them to be or not. Sometimes that happens to us and sometimes those are our greatest gifts. I also think in that process, and this is what I'd love to know from you is once you start seeing change from that, then all of a sudden you start searching for it. You start saying, how can I learn more? Who can I have around me that are going to see things in me that I can't see, even if it's a gift?
Sometimes our insecurity gets us so beat down that our confidence is low and like, I have nothing to give anyone. I was at that point. I was like, I have no idea what value and that even further exemplified some of my insecurities. But I also, as I've learned is like, oh, that's why I got to surround myself with people that see things that I don't see that are going to places I want to go or want to make the difference that I want to go, because then they're going to start to say, oh, this is what I see and a lot of that is belief. So I want to hear from you what are you learning? What are you seeking to define that, you mentioned a little bit earlier that honing in how you influence and communicate with people to bring more out of them. But I want to know what's Jordan learning and what are you kind of wrestling with as a leader to be able to better influence and impact and make a difference?
[JORDAN]
One of the things that I've been really bad at for a long time, and that I'm still not great at, but I'm getting better at it, I'm working on, I used to really be bad at this; I just would never want to ask for help. There's this idea that, the paradox of education says, the more you learn, the more you realize you don't know. I think part of the reason I struggled to ask for help, Tyler was my ego and my insecurity, almost like, well, I don't really need it. What's crazy about the more you learn, the people who are really leading and really impacting and really creating change in this world are the ones that are asking for the most help. You know, I don't know isn't a side of insecurity. I don't know is a side of confident humility.
It's this idea that I've learned a lot. Because I've learned a lot I've realized there's so much that I don't know. There's so much knowledge that I have yet to acquire. So I think for me, I've just really enjoyed this art of asking for feedback. I don't always enjoy the process of asking for feedback, but I've really started to study what does it look like to be a person who asks for feedback consistently and who asks for feedback well. Because there's a right way and a wrong way to do that. I would've used, in the past Tyler, I would've said to you, "Hey Tyler, could I get some feedback on today's conversation?" Because that's a very awkward question and it's incredibly difficult to respond to, you would've probably said something like, yes, it was a good conversation. Well done.
And can I get some feedback is like the worst question ever. It's like impossible to respond to. Unless you've got a really good trend and there's a really close relationship it's almost a guarantee that you're going to get a dishonest answer because what are you supposed to say? If I ask you that question sort of flippable and I'm like, "Hey Tyler, hey man, could you give some quick feedback on today's talk," and you're like, "Here's five things that you screwed up," that's awkward. So what I've learned, for somebody listening, if you really want to get better and grow and you want to work on your blind spot, start getting specific at how you ask for feedback.
"Hey Tyler, one of the things that I'm working on is my pace and my tonality. Sometimes I talk too fast and I've been trying to slow myself down. Would you mind giving me some feedback on my pace and my tonality in today's conversation?" Well now I've allowed you an opportunity to specifically speak into a certain area. So great questions lead to great feedback. Specific questions lead to specific feedback. I think that's one of the things that I'm learning. It's one of the things I'm working on Tyler, as it relates to exposing, continuing to expose some of those blind spots.
[TYLER]
Man, I love that you shared that and love that you framed that in, because it that is something that I think we've probably picked up similar and reminding me. It's like, oh, okay, that's a better way to do it. I think that sometimes it's, as you develop the habit you got to be reminded. So thank you for that. It was great. One of the things I want to share with you, and this is something I hopefully our listener can together. This is something that I learned. I would have a hard time asking for help, but it was more of just kind of knew enough to be dangerous. Oh, I know enough that it's like, ah, I don't know how much help.
This was a great switch for me and it's something that I want to share with you. I want to share with everyone else. It's instead of asking for help frame, it is how can I add value to the other person? Meaning if your gift is, you know you're an amazing connector as well, you have tremendous energy and if I said to you, "Hey Jordan I would love to be able to serve people. Is there anyone that that I might, my message might have an impact on?" You're like, "Oh yes, actually let me connect you with a few other people." One, if you love doing that, I just asked for help but you added value to me. That is a lesson that I learned. I learned that from both John Maxwell and Angela.
Angela shared, is always be 60/40. And part of me feeling in that mindset is like, oh, when you're allowing someone else to give you 40 in that relationship, you're not taking advantage of, you're adding value as opposed to, oh, I don't want to ask anything of you because then all of a sudden it's this I'm a hundred. I'm in control. You're zero. I don't owe you anything as opposed to, hey, I'm going to give 60, you give me 40. That's a way for you to add value to me and me to add value to you. It's kind of like you go to a hotel and the bellhop is there and you're like, no, no, no, I got the bags. I could do this. It's okay. I got the bags. Instead of saying your job is to carry my bags. If I let you carry my bags, I'm showing how much I value you.
[JORDAN]
That's so good. You honor people when you allow them. So to meet you, maybe not halfway, but I love what you said about 60/40. So there's so much truth to what you said. I want to say this to young leaders because here's what I think a lot of young leaders fall victim to, is I don't have anything to add. I don't have any value that I provide. So what do I do with that? Because I would like to ask Tyler for his time or I'd like to pick his brain, but I'm not sure I add any value. Okay, well, let's remind those people, "Hey, you do provide value." You can provide attention and support and empathy and praise and encouragement to Tyler. So you do add something to Tyler, but here's the other way that I think we provide value.
I think if I was, maybe I'm brand new to business. I'm a young entrepreneur. I'm fine, I just don't feel worthy or qualified to have Tyler's time. I say, "Hey, Tyler, I've been listening to your podcast, the Impact Driven Leader, and I just want to let it's meant a lot to me. I've listened to two specific episodes. I listened to the episode with John Gordon and the episode with David Nurse. Here are my three biggest takeaways in each episode. I want you to know that I've been taking action on two of the things that you said in these episodes, and it's made a major difference in my life. So I'm just reaching out with a heart of gratitude to say, thanks for what you've taught me."
Now if that's how you've shown up now, I should be able to ask you for your time. I can say, "Hey, I'd love a little time on your calendar and man, it'd be such a blessing if I could spend some more time with you. By the way, I want to give you an out if now is not a good time." So just politely say, "Hey, now's not a good time. Let's circle back down the road. I totally get it you're a super busy guy." I think when you honor people and you give them an out again, it's a form of value that you've provided. I want to honor the fact that you're tremendously busy, that you're impacting a lot of people and just wanted to reach out and say thanks and share my gratitude for who you are and the work that you're doing. That's value. When you've provided value, you're now in a position where you can ask for help and feel good about it,
[TYLER]
Man, what a great lesson and tremendous value. I mean, seriously, if you're listening and this, myself taking notes on that and reflecting on that, yes that's an absolute, brilliant way to serve people. It's to share with them how they're impacting you and really that relationship, then that connection. Because if you're in the space door like yourself, you want to influence people. That's kind of nice to know if you are and to help guide you down the path of like, oh, that impacted, influenced you? Great. I didn't know. I mean, I hoped it would, but I didn't know. To see the fruit of it, amazing. Well, let me do more of that. And how can I do more of that in your life, because that's what I'm here to do? Love it.
[JORDAN]
I think you're also saying, hey, just so you know, I'm a person that's going to do something with the advice that you give me and with the time that you give me, that's kind of your indirect way of "Hey Tyler, just so you know, if we do spend time, I'm going to do something with the time that you invest in me. I'm going to be a part of your legacy. I'm going to move your mission forward. I want to impact people through you because I'm a person who takes action." Again, I think part of that's value.
[TYLER]
Well, I love it. I appreciate it. Jordan, real quick, so people listening in, where can they learn more about you, your speaking engagements, all the stuff you're doing? I'd love for you, from your mouth to where people can find out more about you and all you're doing well.
[JORDAN]
Like you, I share a decent amount of content. You maybe share more than I do, but we share a decent amount of our journey and our story and our content on in Instagram. It's probably where we're most active on social media channels, but LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter you can find us at montgomeryompanies.com, that's our website. We try to stay current with our community through our website. And I just say this, reach out. I would love if anybody's listening, they've got a question, a thought, something you want to share or ask, send me a direct message via Instagram. Would love to connect with you, would love to be helpful in any way that I can be. So Tyler, I appreciate the question and what a blessing man, to share this conversation with a good friend like you. I love the Impact Driven Leader podcast. I'm a fan and it's fun. What an honor it is when you get to be on a show that you're a fan of. So I'm the one who was blessed today by this conversation. I just want to say thanks for having me.
[TYLER]
Well that makes two of us. So thank you, man. Appreciate it. And I'll see you soon.
[JORDAN]
I'll talk soon, brother. God bless you. Love you man.
[TYLER]
Hopefully, somewhere. Yep. All right. I hope you guys got tremendous value out of that conversation. I truly admire Jordan. I admire him because as we talked about in the conversation, as I talked about in the intro, it's about connection. And when you're looking to connect with people simply to have value to, maximize what their skills are great at. It really means that we have to take a step away from our pain, our history, and look just to serve people through it. Jordan shared his story. As well, maybe you've heard my story and out of both of those, I know this, Jordan's desire as I read it, my desire is to allow my story to give people inspiration and hope. It's to understand that it didn't happen for any reason at all, other than to be able to impact the world positively.
I believe this, you can be a pessimist or an optimist. The opportunities are all the same. It's if you look at it as, oh, that happened to me, well, then you're going to be a pessimist. If you look at it for the situation that it happened for me, that's an optimist. I think Jordan touched on a lot of those opportunities. As a leader, it's really our opportunity to frame it in that way so we can lead people to see the opportunities for good, rather than be drugged down by the challenges that we think could overwhelm us.
I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Thank you for being here with me. As always would love if you were to subscribe. Share this episode. Someone may get value from it. I would love nothing more than for you to comment, rate this podcast, let me know doing. More five star ratings mean it's going to serve more people and I would love that for Jordan and others, because his story deserves to be told just as well as yours does in your community and in your relationships. Thank you for being here and until next time have a good one.
[CAREY]
The answer is I can't. So you have to scale it. What I would suggest is you start to prioritize relationships and the people closest to you should get the quickest and the deepest response. So if you look at your phone and you have 28 unread emails, they're not all equal one spam. So you can delete that without opening it. Another one is from someone that you met five years ago at a conference that you haven't heard from in a long time, another one is from a friend or take it to text messages. You know, if you've got your mom, your wife and a couple of colleagues, and then somebody at haven't talked to in two years, we know that even though there are five equal text messages you should probably talk to your wife first, your mom shouldn't be too far behind.
That colleague do you have to get back to that colleague right away? Probably not. Should have been an email, could have waited until our next meeting. So what you have to do is start doing triage and what a lot of people struggle with is now everywhere you go, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, every platform you're on has an inbox. You used to have an email inbox. Now you get an inbox on Facebook, Instagram you're getting, you're getting messages everywhere and we just feel inundated. So the idea is to do some relational tree and try to figure out the depth of the relationship should determine the depth and the speed of the response. So who are your three to five, who are your 10 to 15 talk to them when they text you you know that guy from high school, you haven't talked to in 15 years, he can wait or maybe you don't need to respond, have inboxes that I don't use.
That's just a decision because of the volume of correspondence. Then eventually if you, if you have a public platform like I do, I always never understood people who like, well, I'll always answer my own email. Well, you start getting thousands of emails a week and you're like, okay, I can't do that anymore. Or I won't do it. I'm choosing not to. So now I have staff who monitor that for me. If I need to know about it, I will find out. Then my private inbox is actually very manageable. I spend less than 30 minutes a day on it. It's easy. So you got to, you got to figure that out. When you don't figure it out, you're overwhelmed all the time. By the way, since at your best release, iOS 15 came out and they did something I asked for in the book.
I'm sure because they read the book. No, I has not. You now have focus modes. So you used to have, do not disturb. I've had my device on disturb, do not disturb for years, but now you have focus modes. So when you're at work, you can block out everybody, but allow like 5, 10, 15 people to ring through. When you're at home, you can flip it and let a different group of people ring through so that you can protect your family time and you can customize it based on the time of day or where you are. So I would encourage people to to take a look at that because otherwise, every time you look at it, you have all those like red badges on your phone and you're just overwhelmed all the time. You should shut those off. Get rid of the notifications. Only allow a handful of people to ring through at the right time, in the right way. The world will function without you responding every 15 seconds to inbound messages.
[TYLER]
I think that those are all challenges for people with a high level of responsibility, but I believe if you put focus your responsibility to those relationships that deserve the most, then it becomes real easy to filter through that. To me, that's what you've kind of suggested. I agree with, and that's one of the practices that I've had. I've noticed that the recent update is you have those focuses, I've used those limits and it's really helped. So I thank you for sharing that. I think one of the things that, that I hear, I feel, I sense and I realize that relationships go like this. We, we have times where we ebb and flow, where we're growing into different places in life. I know for, for say my wife or her counterparts or women that I work with, I tend to find that it's harder for them to understand that relationships are going to ebb and flow. So in other words, those six to 12 people that are important in your endeavor today are going to be maybe different in six months. But as you shared, I think it's so important to just accept that for what it is and know it doesn't meaning you're cutting the person out of your life. It's just saying, Hey, right now, my focus is on these relationships for this reason. It it's just ebb and flow through that.
[CAREY]
Yes, I think that's right. I've also realized, and this is kind of sad, but a, I think a reality of just human life is sometimes relationships are there for a season. Like if you think about your closest three to five, they're, they're probably different than they were a decade ago. Because you moved or you moved on or your interest changed or whatever, and even your best friends sometimes morph over time. That's okay. That's all right. Now I really believe that. I think the longest friendships are the best and we have some multi decade friendships that we wouldn't trade for anything. But yes, you have to like, your bandwidth is fixed. Well,
[TYLER]
I would even,
[CAREY]
It's like your dishwasher. You can only fit so many plates and cups into it and then it's full. I promise you, your relational bandwidth can take a lot less than your dishwasher.
[TYLER]
I would probably gather that as well, no matter how big your dishwasher is, but to use that analogy as dishes, like you can have dishes in your cabinets that you love and appreciate that maybe you only fit a certain season, but it doesn't mean that you're going to throw them out in the trash instead of washing them. I think that's how I look at some of these relationships and ideas. I think that can, can, if you were feeling responsible to those, instead of saying, Hey what, I'm just going to set that aside because right now I need to focus on what I need to focus on. Going back to that phone, you could toggle your phone on different focuses. It doesn't mean that you've forgotten about those relationships just right now. It's not the place for it.
[CAREY]
I'm not saying ignore everybody. But what I am saying is inbound, like I was a minute late for this, which I hate being late, but my doorbell literally rang and it was our postman. And he said, I got to see you to be able to deliver this. I'm like, okay, okay. Okay. I said, you have my permission because we have couriers all day. But your phone is kind of like that. Like imagine that that was somebody knocking at your door. Every time there was a text, every time there an email, every time somebody likes something on social, every time somebody messaged you on Instagram, that that was like a knock on your door. Like you wouldn't live, you would get a restraining order against all these people and tell them, stay off my property and put up a gated like fence. You're not allowed in and have security cameras.
[CAREY]
It's like, I need my peace and privacy leave me own people. I'm trying to sleep, but we have this device and we allow it to come into our lives and just interrupt us left. And center and research shows that if you're interrupted, once it takes you about 25 minutes to refocus. So one interruption in this conversation really get your brain back to where it was before 25 minutes. As if you're creative, like I am, sometimes you're working on a really good idea. You get an interruption and you go back to it. You're like, now what was I thinking about? You can remember cause you're human and sometimes those ideas are just gone. So try to find distraction free space.
[TYLER]
Well thank you so much for joining me. I'm so excited about your book at your best. I'm excited for it to be part of the impact driven leader book club here later this year. So thank you for, for writing it. Thank you for sharing it. Thank you for spending time with myself and our audience today. I really appreciate it. You to Brad, Brad, Lomenick for connecting us and great shoutout. Great friend.
[CAREY]
Thanks Tyler.
[TYLER]
A piece that I really took away from that conversation with Carrie was this whole I idea about you can't just do and do and do, and then finally take a vacation that doesn't work. It it's kind of like, as I'm sitting here thinking now it's kind of like throwing all your expenses on your bank account and then after all your expenses have been debited realizing, oh, I need to put 5,000 or a thousand or whatever, thousands of dollars, hundreds of dollars into your bank account to cover all your expenses. It doesn't work. If you're not making weekly routine deposits and not spending as much as what you're putting in, you're going to run out of business. You're going to be broken. You're going to be bankrupt to me. That was as I'm sitting here and I'm thinking it it's when we create a budget and a plan and we look at seasons and we look at those things.
[TYLER]
As he talked about in the different green, yellow, red outlines, where are you at in your day? If you're packing as much good stuff into the green and then seeing what's in the yellow and red man, that's, what's going to allow your engine to continue to operate. But here's what I also know. It's, what's going to allow you to be the best leader that you can be to make the impact that you're looking to make. I know times where I'm stretched thin man, people don't want to be around me, my wife, my kids, anyone else they've told me far enough times, but it's also where I know that being tapped into community with others to be engaged with them is when I get fueled up and I kind of stay in line. I'm thankful. I have a couple of those groups.
[TYLER]
I'm thankful that we have the round table here as the part of the impact driven leader community really help us work through that as well. I invite you to be a part of that. I also would love for you to, if you're just listening to this episode, subscribe, get notifications for the new upcoming episodes comment. I'd love to read your comments. I'd love to know what value we got out of this episode. So that way I can hopefully keep bringing more value to you your time worth it. Thank you for listening in today. And can't wait to finish off the rest of 2021 in an amazing fashion next week's guest, man. Get ready for it. It's going to be a great conversation.
