IDL03 Season 1: Being a Lifelong Student of Leadership with Ryan Hawk
Today I have the honor of interviewing Ryan Hawk! He is the author of the book Welcome to Management - which is the first book in our book club.
Meet Ryan Hawk
Ryan is the founder/host of The Learning Leader Show, a podcast that has been listened to by millions of people in more than 150 countries. He is also the author of Welcome To Management – How To Grow From Top Performer To Excellent Leader. Forbes called it “the best leadership book of 2020.”
In addition to podcasting and writing, he is regularly asked to speak on leadership and personal and professional development for large company events. Click here to learn more and submit a speaking request. As the head of Brixey & Meyer’s Leadership Advisory practice, he facilitates Leadership Circles to offer structured guidance and collaborative feedback for new and experienced leaders. He also devotes time to one on one work as a leadership advisor for executives.
Visit his website, connect on Twitter and listen to his podcast.
In this episode:
Why Ryan wrote the book ‘Welcome To Management’
Ryan’s 4 step learning framework
Being a good leader and defining culture
Making the move from an individual performer to a maximizing leader
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
BOOK | Welcome to Management by Ryan Hawk - click here for bulk book sales
BOOK | The CEO Next Door by Elena L. Botelho
Ryan Hawk’s website and Twitter
The Learning Leader Show - Ryan Hawk’s podcast
Join the Impact Driven Leader Community
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.
teach…one of the greatest tools for learning in the world is becoming a teacher.
Ryan Hawk
if you’re going to expand your comfort zone, do it in a way that’s going to serve others.
Tyler Dickerhoof
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]: Hey there. Welcome to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. Today, I have the honor of interviewing Ryan Hawk. Ryan is the author of the book Welcome to Management, the first book in our book club this year, as well as he is the host of The Learning Leader podcast, which Forbes calls the most dynamic leadership podcast out there. From Inc. Magazine, he was recognized and listed on the five podcasts to make you a modern leader. I listened to that podcast. I sure hope you do too. As well, he's been featuring interviews with hundreds of bestselling authors, world renowned, corporate athletic, and military leaders and the show has millions of listeners in 150 plus countries. Ryan is a lifelong student of leadership. He rose to the roles of a professional quarterback, as well as a sales, vice president of a multi-billion dollar sales company.
Currently he is the head of the Brixey & Meyer Leadership Advisory practice. He speaks to Fortune 500 companies, he speaks to the NCAA, he facilitates leadership circles, but more importantly, I get to call Ryan a friend. I'm thankful that Ryan chose to be a part of this project, and I'll share real quick Ryan's encouragement. Ryan's encouragement over the years has been really important to me. See, I got to know Ryan first a couple of years ago when I was hosting a podcast with my wife called the Impact Makers Podcast. And I reached out to Ryan, I enjoyed his podcast. I said, "Ryan, would you be a guest any quickly?" He said, "Yes." And to me, that's made an impact on me, an impact that again is about making him impact-driven is that there's no one that you're too important for. And that's what I learned from Ryan.
And I'm so thankful that we get to have this interview, but let me give you the top five things that I've gotten out of the book of Welcome to Management. Number one, it is literally a leadership textbook. You know, this book came out and it sat on my shelves for about eight months. I heard all the stories. I saw people reading it. I just didn't get there to a point to listen to it. I listened to it the summer of 2020 and automatically I said, "Wow, I have been missing out." It's a leadership textbook. In a world where no one needs a textbook, this is the leadership course that you want to be a part of. And Ryan and I talk about that in this first episode.
One of the other things that I got out of the book, which I love, is leadership starts with you. You know, that's something that I've learned from my mentor, John Maxwell, and Ryan says it here as well. And he stresses it. He shares his learning framework, which I know will give you a guide, how you can go through that process every single day, yourself. Number three is preparation is the greatest medicine for fear. I know this is a lesson that he learned playing many years of football, whether that was high school, college, and then professionally is you really need to prepare. And the more you prepare you can say, "Hey, okay, I've seen something like this before." Ryan talks about it in his book being so prepared in high school football, that the practices were harder than any of the games they ever played. To me, that is an attribute that we should live by in life.
Number four, you have to define culture and Ryan defines it based upon the lessons he has learned from others. It has to be cultivated as he describes in the book. You can't just expect culture to happen. You have to cultivate it. And then number five, you have to do all three. You have to lead, you have to manage, you have to coach. In this interview, you'll hear how Ryan felt. He failed making the move from a individual performer to a maximizing leader, and then how he evolved over time to understand where he needed help and where to ask for it. Enjoy this interview with Ryan Hawk. Will see you at the end.
[TYLER]: All right, Ryan, thank you for joining this first episode of the Impact Driven Leader podcast and book club. And I'm so thankful for you to join me. I'm so thankful for your encouragement along the journey as I interviewed you years ago, and then when I shared this kind of idea how encouraging you were. So, thank you for being here.
[RYAN HAWK]: Hey, Tyler, I appreciate getting to know you over the years now and now having one on tape. Let's make it happen, man.
[TYLER]: Yeah. So, let's jump into your book. You know, obviously this is a book club for people that want to grow as leaders. And I know that's a passion of yours, but let's just, simple, this is an easy softball. Why did you write the book one?
[RYAN]: One, I love books. I love reading books. I'm very grateful for the people who have invested years of their life to pour their souls out onto the page that have made such an impact on me. So, first and foremost, I'm a lover of books. I'm a lover of the written word. I thought it would be a personal, huge challenge for me to one, earn a book deal from a major publisher and two then actually write a book and get it published. So, that's first and foremost, and then I would say that's more of the selfish reasons for doing it. So, some of the other reasons more others focused would be, I picked a critical time in my career that I fumbled and made many mistakes, and that was when I made the leap from individual contributor to a manager for the first time.
And I came in like a lot of people and you get your first job. And I was a cubicle cold calling 60, 70, 80 phone calls a day sales job after I got done playing sports in college and after college and was fortunate to kind of utilize of the things I learned from the football field and implement that into the business world and do pretty well when it came to my job and achieving the numbers that my company had asked and exceeding them in a great way that it gave me the chance to interview for a management role. And I earned that management job and then proceeded to be terrible at it because the skills needed to be good at that job and the skills needed to be good as an individual sales performer, there are hardly any overlap between the two jobs and yet this happens constantly.
So, I think it's a very underserved market. I thought it was a story I could tell that was personal to me and to what I went through into the mistakes I made, as well as the fact that I've been interviewing some of the world's most thoughtful and effective leaders over the past six years on my podcast, The Learning Leader show. Like let's say, I combine my life experience with all that I'm picking up and learning from these incredible people, put it together in the form of a book and hopefully we can help other people. And that's how Welcome to Management came out.
[TYLER]: So, one of the things is I read this book last summer, I've known about it and just, it found a slot for me, finally, and as I read it, I was like, "No, this is a textbook on leadership." And that's how I view it is, is and I know for you, you get your master's and you kind of in that education. How did this process of interviewing everyone and writing the book become your true doctorate that now you can proceed forward and really educated.
[RYAN]: So, you shared part of what I was going through. I mean, I earned my MBA while I was working and going to class at night and online doing whatever I needed to do to earn it. And I did, it took me six years. And after I got done with that, I thought about going back to school because my company gave $5,250, like most Fortune 500 companies and companies in general for a company rim or educational reimbursement. I felt like if I wasn't using that every year, I was wasting it. And as I was looking to go to graduate school again, whether to get another master's or potentially a leadership form of a PhD, I wasn't in love with any of the curriculums out there. I didn't love the entire process of earning my MBA. There were some classes I hated but I felt like I needed to do it.
And at the same time I have this dinner set up, which is a whole another story though, with a legendary entrepreneur and leader named Todd Wagner, who was Mark Cuban's business partner. And they started broadcast.com together. And when I was at dinner, I got there early and Todd did as well before the entire group. And so I had him one-on-one for a while and we were talking just about how he built that business. And I asked, I just peppered with questions the entire time. And I was fascinated by how giving and kind and humble he was and knowledgeable and full of wisdom. And I thought, instead of going back to school, could I design life to do this? Could I have these long form conversations with guys like him? I like Todd. Hopefully they'd be as kind and giving as he is, and then create my own form of a leadership PhD program instead of having somebody else build the curriculum.
And I wanted to choose all of my professors. I don't want anyone else choosing them. And so, that's how the Learning Leader Show really, the Genesis of how it came about was the fact that I wanted to create a lot of long form curiosity conversations. And I chose to publish them for a couple of reasons. One, because having a platform where you ask someone to be on your podcast gives you a higher likelihood of them saying yes than if you just said, could we have a phone call? And two, I thought it would be cool to learn in public because maybe other people would want to learn along with me. And that community building part of it is really how my entire business now has been built because I decided to learn in public.
[TYLER]: So, let's talk about that. Let's dive into that because that's something that, yeah, I'm a learner. My number two strength is learning, but one of the things that I've learned is the best way to really learn, not read. To really learn is to be involved in that process with others, to do in elements, teach too, you know, as John Maxwell has, you know, really dug it, built on me, layered learning. So, talk about that. And this is a book club. People are going to read your book. They're going to digest and hopefully teach. How do you see that as important through this process?
[RYAN]: Well, I mean, it's in the book, but I think one of the biggest influences on me is Charlie Munger. And he has, he equips, you know, become a learning machine. And so, I've borrowed that and use that and believe that, and then create my own framework for how I'm working to become a learning machine and really has four parts. It's that as, and I'll describe each of those four parts for you, Tyler. I think that could be helpful for others as well, because what I found to be a commonality among leaders who are sustaining excellence is the fact that they have some sort of framework for how they make decisions, for how they behave, for what they do on a daily basis.
And so, the first part for me though, is I have to fuel my intake engine on a regular basis. And I fuel that with knowledge, with wisdom books, Ted talks, podcasts, one-on-one long form conversations with people smarter than me. That's how I'm fueling my intake engine. The second part of it though, is you can't just be a learner. You also have to be a doer. So, I want to have an experimenter's mindset, meaning I want to have a, my life to be a series of experimentations based upon what's coming in. So, I'm fueling the engine, but I have to then go and do it. So, that goes to part two. Part three, which is a phase, a lot of us skip, especially guys like you and me who we're active and we're moving, we're doing a lot is we have to take a step back. We have to reflect, we have to analyze what worked from my experiments, what didn't, what should I keep doing, what should I stop doing?
And then fourth, as you just mentioned, which is a critical component that I push everybody to do is teach. One of the greatest tools for learning in the world is becoming a teacher, is teaching. So, for example, think of the time in your life, where you were a guest lecturer at your university, whether you gave a presentation at work, whether you gave a presentation at school, whether you had to teach a mentee something that they were asking about. All of these moments that put you in the position of being the teacher, most of us with a lot of pride, we want to prepare like crazy to do well for the presentation, do well for the test, do well for the mentee that we're trying to help, that we're going to prepare. We're going to gain clarity of thought through that preparation, and then we're going to teach it and once we voice it or we write it down, that's when a lot of learning happens, because we also start getting feedback.
That feedback then can help us iterate grow, get a little bit better. So, that four-part phase of becoming a learning machine, I think is just a good way for me. And I try to push others to behave if they care about, you know, having a trajectory like this and I'm pointing like upwards. So, that's been a big part for me, Tyler. It's certainly a good topic and a good question.
[TYLER]: So, why would you want to join in the learning process of your own book? You wrote it, there's things that you probably now, as I've learned that you wish were in there. If you had the opportunity here in January to just say, "Hey, I'm going to sit down with a group and we're going to go through this." What would that be? Why?
[RYAN]: Why I want to be a part of that? Because I could get feedback and I think me, like, I've grown up being coached my entire life. I love coaching. I love feedback. I love people who have thought deeply about the work or my behavior or my performance as an athlete or as an intellectual, I guess, which is weird to say, but as a writer, as a podcaster, I think getting feedback for me is a great way to learn as well as certainly. I mean, the second book is published that the hardest thing for most authors that I've learned from speaking with many of them, and now being one myself, is the fact that I can't change that. You know, and there are, my feelings evolve, there are new learnings and that's why I continue to write and will continue to publish books. But you have to almost let it go. You can sit in it and you can talk about it, but I also think doing it with another group, I would say, you know, I've evolved a bit on this and maybe I've grown a little bit on that chapter or that point or that paragraph. And I actually think a little bit differently about that. I think that could be a fun part about going through it with a group.
[TYLER]: So, what is one of those,
[RYAN]: That's a tough question. As I think about it now, when it comes to something in my book that I would change, I would just say, I just have more. I have more input. I have more intake that I would add to it. When it comes to living a life of excellence or pursuing excellence, there's just so many more stories. There's so many more people I've been able to talk to. There's so much more I've learned that I would just add to the story. So, for example, if you want one that I might tweak or evolve a little bit, I mean, there's a, it's a very common phrase out there now that it's almost tired is, you know, leap outside of your comfort zone. And I think, yeah, I usually and I agree with that and I still agree with that, but I might tweak the phrasing and the wording of it so that it's not such a tired phrase for people anymore.
I interviewed a former Navy seal 25 years, who now works for the Cleveland Indians as their head of learning and development. His name is Jay Hennessy and Jay and I talked about the willingness and the ability to regularly push your edges. Because we have the zone, Tyler of competency and comfort. And if we're regularly pushing our edges, this zone is going to expand. It's going to get bigger. And so that's the way I would think of it that may make me more excited about this than the kind of the phrase that people have been using for years now, which is just leap outside of your comfort zone, because that's where the action is or whatever people are saying. I would tweak that. And I am going to tweak that moving forward when it comes to how we talk about pushing our edges.
[TYLER]: So, what I gathered there, it's making it very systemic, making it very purposeful, intentional. If you're going to expand your comfort zone, is do it in a way that's going to help you serve others, maybe?
[RYAN]: Absolutely. I mean, that's kind of the point of all of this. It is the fuel for me, like selfishly is seeing the impact that has on other people. I mean, I think that's a big reason why I stay consistent and work so hard at it, just because I do, and I know you feel this way too in the work that you do. I feel, I guess I would phrase it as this, it's the fuel that drives me is the fact of feeling the impact you could have on other people. Initially, I would say was all about my own personal curiosity. And there is still a huge element of that. But now on top of the curiosity, it's seeing the fact that you can impact people to change their life for the better. And to me, that's just really exciting to get a chance to do that.
[TYLER]: I think that is, you know, that's a point I've grown into, and that is the impetus of the impact-driven leader, is someone that realizes, "Oh, wow, I can really make an impact, but I got to almost, I got to go through that deep dark journey.'' So, let's talk about that, that you mentioned it you've interviewed a lot of people that have hit a wall in their personality, you know, things that they've experienced. You mentioned earlier, you're a sales expert, right? You're really great that you get promoted into management and all of a sudden, you're kind of at a loss, like, what was that point that, Oh, snap point where you realized I need help?
[RYAN]: When I got my promoted?
[TYLER]: Yeah.
[RYAN]: Unfortunately you actually are, I shouldn't say you, I didn't really realize that right away. I didn't have enough awareness. I didn't have enough humility. I had a lot of arrogance and thought that I kind of was the chief answer officer, which I wrote about, is so wrong. But that point is, it took me probably years to figure out you don't know all the answers. You shouldn't act like you do. And so it's, I wouldn't say there was a specific moment in time. It was more of an evolution over time to where you start realizing, "Wow. Like I really need help." And so one of the things that I've been lucky is to always have really great mentors in my life. So, I've just really leaned hard on those people. Like my dad, like some of the great bosses, I've been lucky to work for, like Rex Caswell or Brian Miller or Dustin Kim.
And they have a wide variety of experiences that I can draw from. That's one thing I think that I learned early in my life, is when at all possible people are good and they want to help, so, ask for it. And so, I remember like when I was a freshman at Miami University as a quarterback trying to win the starting quarterback job, and Drew Brees had just finished up his career at Purdue. And I sent him an email saying like, "What should I do? Or what advice do you have for me?" And to see he wrote me back within a day, I remember talking about, you know, how to move the change, focus on the team, don't get hot too high or too low, celebrate with your guys. Like all these specific pieces of advice that I remember thinking, wow, like people for the most part are really good. You just have to reach out to them and ask for help.
So, I think part of it was just having a willingness to find the people who had already done what I wanted to do and reach out to them for help and ask about specific situations so that I could start slowly implementing all the good stuff from other people, and then combine it with my own personality so I could find my own voice and my own style.
[TYLER]: So, you talk about that in regards to like Drew was a pier, right? I mean, he was older, but he was a pier. He was at that. You talk about your coaches. Let's go back to that a little bit. We'll come back to piers, because I think that's so important, but how have they been a catalyst for you? You talk about, you know, your dad, you talked about other coaches, you know, general McChrystal who has written [inaudible 00:20:16] and it's been really impactful in your life. It's easy to see that. How have they been a catalyst for you to want to make a bigger impact and not be, "I'm just trying to learn."
[RYAN]: Well, I mean, I'm inspired by the work that they've done. You mentioned these people and I'm lucky to have two parents that have led the way for me as well. I mean, that's the biggest catalyst for me in my life. I mean the biggest reason, really everything, my parents and my brothers. So, I would say, I think you, I actually recently had on a couple of days ago, I had dinner with my high school football coach, Ron Allery. And I told him, you know, I just wanted to thank him for all that he'd done because I didn't fully realize how much of an impact he had on my life until I was more mature and I could understand him, I could reflect more about it. And when you start looking through the people in your life and all the impact, my parents, some of those coaches, coach Greg, coach Allery, Brian Miller, I guess I mentioned some of these people. In a way it makes me want to try to do the same for other people.
And so that's why when, like Dr. Henry Cloud talks about your wake behind you, it's far and wide. Like, for example, if I help one person, that person may have a spouse and they may have kids and they may have parents, they may have brothers and sisters and friends, and if I could help that one person, I'm not just impacting that one person. I'm impacting the awake. I'm impacting everybody around their life. And the mentors in my life that have helped me have done that for the others in my life. Now, some of them might get annoyed at me asking too many questions or doing things like that, but for the most part, they've really impacted my entire sphere. And so, I think as leaders, we should think about the responsibility that we have and know the, just the magnitude of people that you're impacting. It is not just that one person or those 10 people who work for you or whatever it may be. It's all the people in their lives and then in their lives, right that wake that you're also having a big impact on them.
[TYLER]: Well, and again, to tie this back into your piers, I think, you know, that's what can be magical there. As you can look at mentors, but to see a pier walking along with you and being willing to give me, you're giving me your time. And you've mentioned how impactful others have done that for you. Why is that important to learn in a layered way to do this, to say, "Hey, you know what, I'm going to get beyond myself and I'm going to serve others and kind of altruistically." But how do you see that playing out and really playing out for someone in a management role like you were, getting started?
[RYAN]: Well, when you decide to take on any sort of a leadership role, you are now saying, I want the responsibility to help others achieve whatever it is that they want to achieve, whether they have goals or whatever it may be, that that now becomes priority number one. That's why leadership is not for everyone. That's why not everybody should go for those jobs or go for that responsibility because it's beyond just you. And that's fine if it's not for you. It doesn't have to be for everybody. There are some individual contributors who don't take on leadership, who companies are absolutely crazy and happy for the fact that those people are a part of their companies and they need to be. But if you choose to become a leader, if you choose to want to lead, to want to influence, to want to help others, then you have to realize the responsibility and the magnitude of your word and the weight of your words get bigger and heavier.
And that's important to think about. Like I mentioned before, I mean, it's not just about the people that you're leading and it's about the people in their life and the people that they're leading, because your work is probably going to have an impact on how they lead others moving forward. So, it is multi-dimensional. There's a lot there that, this is partially why we've all like, I've written about this, but we've all probably worked for a bad boss at one point or had a bad leader in our life or a bad marriage, whatever it may be. Think about the magnitude of the influence of that bad boss and how much damage they did. I mean, I can picture a few right now. That alone is huge motivation for me to try to make that number as small as possible and get the good people in those positions or the people who are open-minded to learn, to grow and to get better because they impact so much not just at work, but also at home.
[TYLER]: Yeah. I mean, I think about that and my own experiences and as learned from others that, you know, sometimes a bad example is almost the best teaching lesson because you learn what not to do. It's kind of sometimes hard to emulate, model someone that's just thinks, "Oh, I can't be as good as Ryan. Ryan is so good at his craft. I can't be that good." And yet you can see someone who does it totally like, "I'm not going to do it that way." And you're like, "Alright, that motivates me to be me." So, let's take that a little bit. Why is it important for a leader, a person, a father, like you are as well to be comfortable in themselves to know who they are, as opposed to trying to, you know, if you talk about Ryan Hawk, he's a quarterback at Miami University, and you're trying to emulate and be Drew Brees. You're probably not going to serve your talents and skills, right?
[RYAN]: Yeah. And I think that's a process to get there though, and it takes maturity. But when I think of the people who have been most impactful, they have a comfort in their own skin. You could tell they've done work on themselves. They regularly hold up a mirror or they have other people in their life to hold up a mirror for them to let them know what's really going on. I mean, self-awareness is a huge skill. I think in leaders that's needed. And it takes some time to try to understand who you are, what your values are, how you live those values out, because once you have them and you establish them and what makes what's valuable to you in your life, and what you want to uphold, what's worth the pain right. Because sometimes that's what values do is we have to uphold them when somebody goes against them, or we have a chance to maybe do something that could benefit us, but it's not within our value system.
That's when you really have to say, "What are your values?" I think those are the types of people that I want to commit to. Now, I've said that compliance can be commanded, but commitment cannot. What I mean by that is I can make you comply if you work for me, if you want to keep your job, but I can't make you commit to me. And I want to work. I want to help leaders build teams where the people on the teams are committed to them, are committed to the teams, are committed to each other, are committed to their leader, as opposed to the ones who are like, "Yeah, I'm going to comply because I need this job. I need the paycheck. I got a family. I have a life." And so they'll comply, but they're not really committed.
There's a big difference in teams where people are committed versus compliant. I played on football teams that way, you know, the committed teams won, the compliant teams lost. In the business world, the exact same thing is true. If you can be the type of leader who others want to commit to, through building trust, through giving, through trying to help, through being kind, through being competent, all the things that go into earning respect. I think that's a big part of this as well.
[TYLER]: All right. Well, thank you. I appreciate you spending time. I appreciate you spending this time with the hopes that other people read Welcome to Management, and I'm excited about that journey that they're going to take. And man, just thank you so much for being willing to spend time with me, to take an hour out of your day to not only spend time with me, but with the intention to really help others. And I can't thank you enough for that. And I pray that God blesses you back because that's my hope and intention of doing this. It's bigger than me and it's just a matter of how can I speak to that one person that is going to be the pebble in the light per se, where those ripples make a massive effect.
[RYAN]: Love it, man. Tyler, I appreciate all that you do, man. I know you're helping tons of people all over and you already have, and you'll continue to do more of it. Man, it is an honor to be here with you.
[TYLER]: All right. Thanks Ryan.
[RYAN]: Thanks man.
[TYLER]: All right. There's a whole lot more. Yeah, Ryan and I went on to speak for another 25, 30 minutes. We dove into some personal stuff and I want you to listen to that, but this is what you're going to have to do. Go to the Impact Driven Leader podcast website to join the book club. In that book club, we're going to talk about the book Welcome to Management, we're going to listen to the rest of the interview with Ryan, where he shares about his challenges, his experiences. He's going to talk about the value of an inner circle. He's going to talk about why improv classes really should be a list of what every great leader should do to get better. I know you're going to enjoy it. I know we're going to help build a better community with really the choice and desire that you're no longer going to be a man on an island, a person on an island all by themselves.
That's what I experienced when I was growing in leadership and growing in my career and I don't want that for you. I want you guys to be able to feel empowered, to make an impact. So, join me. Join me with the rest of the community. Join in to listen to even more depth that Ryan shares, because I know you're going to be impacted by it. So, I'd love for you to join me there. Make sure you subscribe to this episode, share it with somebody. Share with somebody that you think they're going to get value. Leave a review. I prefer five star. If I didn't earn it, that's fine. Tell me. I want to get better because I want to be able to make a bigger impact in those lives around me.
And so thank you for being here. Thank you for listening in and I can't wait for you guys to join in next month. It is going to be a special surprise. One of my mentors and the person that I feel so honored to be able to, you know, divert all of the money that comes in via the podcast book club to his foundation. So, get ready for that. I'm going to tease it over the next month and you're going to see it and excited for you guys to be a part of this community. Thank you for joining in.
