IDL94 Season 2: The Trusted Leader with Sue Dyer
What is the difference between a feared leader and a trusted leader? How can AI impact leadership in the present moment and the future? How can you create a change for good in your leadership that will last?
Today I sit down and have a conversation with author and leader, Sue Dyer. She is the author of the book The Trusted Leader, and she has a tremendous amount of experience building trust in business relationships. In our conversation, she explains the difference between a trusted and a feared leader, and how they affect the people around them. We also break down how being a healthy leader influences the development of artificial intelligence.
Meet Sue Dyer
Sue Dyer, MBA, MIPI is one of the world’s leading experts on trust. She is the author of the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, and Amazon best selling book, The Trusted Leader, and host of the Lead with Trust podcast.
Su has helped more than 48,000 executive construction leaders improve their results by building high-trust business cultures. Sue trains leaders to understand their current level of trust, how to train their brain to create a high trust mindset and create a trust strategy for their business. Sue worked on over 4,000 construction projects worth over $180 billion to perfect her Partnering Approach model.
Sue and her team have won 73 awards for their work. Sue is the president of sudyco™ LLC, and founder of OrgMetrics LLC and the International Partnering Institute.
Visit sudyco, listen to Lead with Trust, and connect on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn.
FREEBIE: Discover Your Leadership Style!
IN THIS EPISODE WE DISCUSS:
A feared leader versus a trusted leader - 04:38
Pursuing new leadership in society today - 18:36
AI cannot replace leadership - 23:01
A feared leader versus a trusted leader
Feared leaders create atmospheres of punishment, shame, and nervousness.
They want everyone to just comply with what they say and do and do not value any feedback, critique, or honest and open discussions. They cannot handle being challenged or having to make space for others’ emotions or thoughts on a subject.
If people are not willing to follow you, then you need to step up and build their trust and confidence in you so that they trust you to lead them.
Pursuing new leadership in society today
Fearful leaders are controlling, and the cycle develops over time until their employees cannot work because their leaders do not trust them to do what they are supposed to, leading to more control, more fear, and so it goes.
Leadership has to evolve into what will be, which is often predicted as workspaces that will be highly interdependent, and that requires a lot of trust.
AI cannot replace leadership
Human empathy cannot be coded – at least not yet, and it is one of the most valuable and important skills that you can train to become a great and trusted leader of your team.
Use AI to get data to reach a decision point that then includes the human touch to fully connect with their teams, businesses, and clients.
Leaders today will have the impact to direct this course for the future that will come from the influence of technology in business.
Which values are you holding onto that define your decision-making process for the future?
Resources, books, and links mentioned in this episode:
BOOK | Sue Dyer – The Trusted Leader: Use the Partnering Approach to Become the Trusted Leader People Want to Follow
BOOK | Jason R. Dorsey – Zconomy: How Gen Z Will Change the Future of Business - and What to Do About It
Visit sudyco, listen to Lead with Trust, and connect on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and LinkedIn.
FREEBIE: Discover Your Leadership Style!
Email Tyler: tyler@tylerdickerhoof.com
Check out the Practice Of the Practice
Visit theimpactdrivenleader.com and sign up for the workshop!
About the Impact Driven Leader Podcast
The Impact Driven Leader Podcast, hosted by Tyler Dickerhoof, is for Xillennial leaders who have felt alone and ill-equipped to lead in today's world. Through inspiring interviews with authors from around the world, Tyler uncovers how unique leadership strengths can empower others to achieve so much more, with real impact.
Rate, review and subscribe here on Apple Podcasts or subscribe on Stitcher and Spotify.
That’s why if you really want to change things, you have to change the values so that it changes the attitudes which change the behaviors.
Sue Dyer
Podcast Transcription
[TYLER DICKERHOOF]
Welcome back to the Impact Driven Leader podcast. This is your host, Tyler Dickerhoof. If you're watching on YouTube, spectacular. Good to see you. Glad you're here. If you're listening, wherever you listen to podcasts, I'm glad to have you as well. Thanks for tuning into this episode where I sit down and have a conversation with author, leader Sue Dyer. Sue is a author of the book, The Trusted Leader. She has a tremendous amount of experience in the construction industry, and she has done tremendous work and really codifying and breaking down how to be a trusted leader. Now, she goes through, in this episode, describing a trusted leader and explaining on the continuum of a leadership, this idea of there's the feared leader, there's the boss, there's a capable manager, there's a good leader, and then ultimately a trusted leader. She and I discussed that, and really, what is a feared leader, how do they go about their job leading?
I would say even as Sue said, as well, feared leader's, not really a leader, it might be a dictator, might be an authoritarian, but not a leader. A trusted leader is actually a leader. We discussed that. We also break down this big change, something that I haven't contemplated, how the effect of healthy leadership, this trusted leader, impacts artificial intelligence, how it affects the impact of artificial intelligence in our world, and how paramount it is to have healthy leadership codifying and developing that artificial intelligence. A strange tangent, but man, so much great valuable information. As well, Sue shares about a free assessment that she has with The Trusted Leader. Look for those in the show notes. I'll wrap up with you in the end, take all the notes and describe it all. But excited to have this conversation with Sue Dyer.
[TYLER}:
Sue, thank you so much for joining me.
[SUE DYER]
Thank you so much for having me.
[TYLER]
Yes, I'm excited. We just chatted a little bit there in before I hit record, and I'm excited to talk about this book, The Trusted Leader that I was exposed to. I was able to get through it, and I think what you really identify in that, I grasp is not this foreign concept, this foreign concept of a different type of leadership, but yet you describe it in such a way that you were saying right before hit record, that our world needs this. I agree, the biggest area that I think leadership has to improve is going from being a feared leader, as you describe in your book, to a trusted leader. So I'd love for you to just jump in there.
[SUE]
It's absolutely true. It's been my life's work to do this. Of course, I focused mostly in construction because it was highly adversarial, and it's where I was, using it as a living laboratory. But if you look at the world today and how interdependent we are, and all you have to do is look at the map of how the Covid virus spread to see visually how interdependent we are, then economically with all of the, you can't get a part for this car, you can't finish this, can't plant that, we are interdependent. In that type of relationship, if you have a high fear relationship, it is a lose-lose situation. So I think that our models of leadership have not kept up with the actual way that the world has changed, and we must move to a trusted leadership model. As technology and AI take over, AI does not have a conscience. AI doesn't care about you, and it doesn't care about me so it's going to be the leaders that determine what the future will be and my hope and prayer is that those will be leaders that will be high trust leaders.
[TYLER]
So there's a lot in that little 30, 60, 75 seconds that you shared. I want to make sure that I piece this along properly because I think it's going to build on each other from a foundational point of view, and then give us this really rich topic to discuss. So I want to hear from you first, describe in your words either the difference or the definition of a feared leader and a trusted leader.
[SUE]
Okay, so a feared leader is someone who people are afraid of telling the truth, and they end up creating an atmosphere where punishment is involve if you don't do what you're told. Sometimes it seems obscure, but when you actually ask the people in that group, what's the punishment, they can tell you. This isn't written in some manual somewhere. So a feared leader is someone who creates this atmosphere of punishment, and they want everyone just to comply. What I like to tell people is compliance doesn't mean that they're actually following you, that they actually, they're just complying. But what happens in your business or in your government when everyone's just complying, is that when a big problem pops up, people see it, they're smart, they could figure out what to do, but they don't act
[TYLER]
No, they're paralyzed.
[SUE]
They're order takers. They're taking an order. You didn't give me an order, therefore, I'm not ---
[TYLER]
They've been conditioned to that
[SUE]
So I have, well, they get punished if they don't do it. So they're absolutely conditioned to it. Also, communication doesn't flow because communication is one of those things that, well, if I stick my neck out and say my truth, I may get punished. So I'm not going to say anything. I've seen that lead to the destruction of companies, of projects, of teams, of whole organizations over and over. And in construction that's been our model for over a hundred years. We are the only industry that has gone down in productivity points for 50 years.
[TYLER]
Well, I mean, it also probably lent into this idea of I come from what I would say, blue collar. I come from a background in agriculture, and for many, many years it was like, oh do something better than doing physical labor. Some of it, growing up on a farm, being around it's like, it can be very fear-based leadership, because that was just the model that perpetuated without business efficiency. That's just the way that it held through. The interesting part there that I want to go back and correlate with where people are at is a lot of times the feared leader is not actively doing anything today that is calling people out and eliciting fear. It was things done before. There's a story that had been told about these monkeys, and they respond, and yet no one understands why the monkeys don't want to climb this pole, is because one monkey got shot with water, but yet none of those monkeys that are left in the room got shot with water. I believe that description of the feared leader happens. People walk into an organization and maybe they've never gotten yelled at, or maybe they've never been wildly punished, but yet there's this organizational fear because it was passed along, even though the leader isn't actively doing anything. Have you seen that?
[SUE]
Yes. It's actually, it's also in norms, so the norms, it's the culture. It's the culture, the norms, so norms are very powerful. When you walk into a team or a business, you walk into their norms. What does norms say? What is normal behavior in this situation. So these norms exist, and so people just act to the norms. That's why if you really want to change things, you have to change the values, so that changes the attitudes. It changes everything
[TYLER]
Let's then jump from the fear leader to the trusted leader.
[SUE]
A trusted leader, in my opinion, is someone who people are willing to follow and want to follow, at least they're willing to follow. To me, a leader is not a leader unless people are willing to follow. That's the definition of a leader. If people aren't willing to follow you, then you're really not stepping up and leading. In a trusted leader business or team I'm there and I feel as though I can trust this person, and I trust that they're going to take us somewhere that will be meaningful. I feel like I'm choosing to be a part of this, and so does everyone else, so pretty quickly, you begin to feel like this sense of teamwork, this cohesion, that we're in something together, we're doing this together, and then that allows us to be committed to our leader, to our mission, to each other, and really to doing whatever it takes. Now you've set up the atmosphere that allows for innovation, creativity, breakthroughs to happen
[TYLER]
So would you say trust happens in the absence of fear or in spite of fear?
[SUE]
I don't believe that fear and trust can coexist. It's sort of like if you turn a light in a room, it's not there anymore. I do not believe they can coexist. I think to the extent that you have fear, you're pushing out trust, and to the extent that you have trust, you're pushing out fear. So you can either go by trying to drive out fear, or you can go by trying to increase trust, and maybe you do both things so that you can increase the level of trust
[TYLER]
I think, as I try to piece that together, and I think what I hear and what I gain is a trusted leader, if a trusted leader, a leader who wants trust and wants to do the best in practice with empathy is all of their actions should be moving to mitigate or reduce fear in their own actions within everyone else. If I am moving towards being a trusted leader, what I'm doing is I'm making sure that I'm doing whatever so feared subsides so I build confidence. I build comfort that's going to inherently move me to a point of being trusted.
[SUE]
A hundred percent. That is your job as a leader, is to build the atmosphere and to continuously break up the fear, crush it out, create a psychological safety, create the ability for team, people to come together, for you to tap into the collective wisdom of your entire group. It's fun once you get there, but it actually is, that's the job of a leader. Also I'll say, leadership isn't just for the person with the authority. You need leadership everywhere throughout your whole business. Can you imagine if everyone was committed to being a trusted leader throughout your whole organization, and then you're going to lead a conversation, you're going to lead a meeting, you're going to lead an initiative, you're going to lead a project, everyone leads at some point. So you're going to want everyone to take that role and what a powerful dynamic you business you would have. But I also think that it comes down to taking ownership also. So when you feel like you're a leader, you own the problem, you own the solution, you own what you're going to do and that's what I see doesn't happen on the feared leaders. You're an order taker, you're waiting for someone else to decide and tell you what to do, instead of saying, let's come up with five ways to solve this and pick the best one.
[TYLER]
Yes, being, even though it's not my problem, I'm going to engage in it if it doesn't help us complete our project or doesn't help us succeed on our mission. I think there's a story that a lot of times innovation comes from a different part of the organization that's willing to be engaged in the entire problem to say, hey, I see this from a totally different angle, and maybe that can offer some insight. It's amazing organizations that work that way that they come up with such creative, innovative ideas and there isn't someone that's afraid of, oh, you took my spotlight.
[SUE]
Exactly. But what you can do as a leader is you can create these forums for this to happen where you cross-pollinate people in the room, so every stakeholder with every different perspective is there. Then they share their perspectives, and together they co-create a solution that's just really extraordinary. Then because they help to create it, they don't argue with it
[TYLER]
Yes, exactly.
[SUE]
It actually gets implemented
[TYLER]
Well, and I think you described this a lot in your book, the Trusted Leader is that moving towards having trust is really taking on a mindset of co-creation. It's not a singular, I have to be the one, I have to own it all, it's all on me. It is really this idea of a I am going to co-create with everyone, I think as you describe it, which is such great way as one plus one equals, 31 plus one equals so much more than just two. It's not following that zero sum. Well, we'll compromise meat in the middle. No, we'll add onto each other.
[SUE]
Well, then it produces extraordinary results. One story I have around that is I work with the Oakland International Airport. This is just one project that's done this, but they were going to rebuild the main runway for the airport. For most airports that would take a year and a half, two years and be very difficult for operations during the time as you can imagine, how structurally that has to be found with planes of a million pounds, they're hitting it. So at Oakland Airport, they wanted to rebuild their runway, and this team of high performers came together and they decided that they were going to build it in two weeks. Now it's a two-year project in two weeks. So they figured out, they started figuring out the technology, how are we going to get all the trucks in there, how are we going to get access?
It's also a secure environment, so you have to go through security, a lot of that stuff. How do you pace that? They did 2 million dollars a day of work, $2 million a day. How do you pay a company, you can't pay them once a month. So we pre-agreed on the quantities for each day, and then they precut checks, and this isn't a public entity, and then we had a schedule that they put across the entire wall in five minute increments, 24 hours a day, seven days a week for two weeks. And it wasn't like it was easy. They had, on a freeway nearby, they had a truck that blew up and burnt down the bridge. So they had all these trucks that were backed up and couldn't get to the project.
They had a few other little mishaps here and there, but they got that entire project paved in two weeks, $2 million a day. Now, before this, everyone would've said, that's totally, absolutely impossible. But that is what a high-performing team can achieve. They can do what other people think are impossible. I see it all the time. I have projects that do a million dollars a day. I have projects where we have program design, built, activate and open an entire airport section, a million square feet in 18 months. We've built towers, we've built, these are things that are just extraordinary. Of course, the cost savings are somewhere between 10% and 40%. So it's pretty extraordinary, so I just see what trusted leaders and trusted leadership can do for any business.
[TYLER]
So you mentioned this and part of that first opening little segment that we have a world now that demands that we move to a trusted leadership ethos and operation. It needs to be and it's been, to me, we've seen this struggle over the last, I don't know how many ever years that we blame it on generations. They're soft, they're entitled, they're expecting something that just is not the norm. But yet to me, it's no, what our society is expecting is to be treated with dignity and respect in humanity. Yet it becomes this great like confusion. Well, is that what is expected of a leader or is that what our world is asking for? To me, that's what that I see, this juxtaposition from a move of a leadership style to now a more up-to-date leadership style that's saying, no, we need to operate differently. How do you see all of that? You mentioned that earlier, that now our society is demanding that we have a different type of leadership?
[SUE]
Well, I think there's two different things I would say about that, one is that the leadership styles that need to evolve because of what's occurring are not really intuitively obvious to everyone and they don't realize they're undermining themselves. So they start to be fearful because they see the changes, so they begin to be, become fearful, and then they become more fearful and so they become more controlling and it gets to be this vicious cycle. Instead of realizing, no, you need to put down your sword and stop protecting or policing and talk to each other and get to know each other, understand your perspective, understand my perspective. Because when you're interdependent, it's a lose-lose or win-win and I can't tell you how many business leaders and government leaders are actually negotiating over who's going to lose more. That is still a loss.
So I think the world has fundamentally changed and I don't see, unless all the technology gets turned off, which I don't think it will, and I think we're not that far off from the singularity event, I think that leadership has to evolve to what will be the future, which will be highly interdependent and in interdependent relationship, you have to have a high trust relationship. I just think that's essential. I don't know, I still don't think most leaders are seeing that, especially business leaders because they look at their marketplace and they think, oh, these are my competitors. Okay, they might be, but let's look at a bigger picture and beyond that and say even with your competitors, you're interdependent in your industry.
[TYLER]
Yes
[SUE]
You're interdependent with your customers. You just have to look at that. I just think the world is evolving towards that. It's not going to change.
[TYLER]
But see, and I guess one of the questions I would ask is a trusted leader, a healthy leader? When I describe healthy, it's a leader that's moving towards being physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationally, healthy whereas you have a balance of healthy quotient. We could break apart what healthy is, but I think you can hopefully understand those listening and understand to move towards that healthy. There is no pinnacle, but it's a move towards it. Is a trusted leader healthy, whereas a feared leader, because you described almost this little bit of insecurity there, where a feared leader has this held in unhealthiness, maybe that's emotionally, that is a barrier for them to be able to be the trusted leader?
[SUE]
Well, for sure, every time any of us, and of course all of us at some point could become a feared leader. I'm walking into something brand new, it's a risky deal, we could be feared and then, but then we need to figure out do we let the fear decide or do we let the, no, I'm going to just trust. I'm going to trust my people. I'm going to trust what's happening. I do think that it's a psychological health that has to be there. None of us are, it's not a black and white thing. All of us can be ogres at time, I'm sure and do things we're not proud of but I think a healthy mind is important and I think with a healthy body comes a healthy mind to the extent that you can. Some people, I know my daughter's disabled, so she does her best but I think it's a matter of trying to be the best that you can be and being for your people, not for yourself.
[TYLER]
Yes, because it's, and to me that dovetails into the last little segment is the idea of understanding that, that I need to be healthy for others in order for the best of them is exempt from artificial intelligence. So there is not this understanding of it's, I have not seen it. Maybe they're developing it to where AI can read non-verbal language, can understand, hey, what may be actually not beneficial for me, may be beneficial for someone else, which is holistically better for all of us. To me, that's what's interesting in this idea of, yes, I believe we could program AI to get there, but only if the programmer understands and comprehends that if the programmer does not understand that and thinks that this idea of artificial intelligence will fix everything, and we're missing out on this real quotient of being a trusted leader and what that all entails, do we run into problems when that AI does not comprehend that?
[SUE]
Well, absolutely. AI needs to be programmed by people who are trusting and who care. I think the other side of it is that AI to me needs to serve humanity, not replace humanity. So that means the decision making you may get data and you may get information so that you can make a decision, a decision point but that will be up to the trusted leaders to make that for their people, whether it's a government or whether it's a business or a team or a project. I think it's going to be the leaders of the future, just like the leaders of the past that determine the outcomes of what will happen.
[TYLER]
I think , and again, I enjoyed the fact that you brought that up because it's something that I hadn't necessarily comprehended and contemplated and sat down and really digested this idea that as we see more and more artificial intelligence, as that becomes a key piece and component of every industry, every industry that the effectiveness towards positivity is actually in the code for that AI. We come to the world that do we end up having run by machines to where it's antagonistic rather than a complimentary part of our leadership. I think that's a very, could go very, very deep in that conversation.
[SUE]
There can be unintended consequences. Look at what we already have today in the algorithms that were created for commerce that are now being used in a political arena to give people information of whatever they want. It's not necessarily the truth. There seems to be no ability to find what is the truth anymore. It was just an unintended consequence of how they wrote the algorithms. So that's just one area.
[TYLER]
It's again, when you think about that in and overlay it on this idea of being a trusted leader, and are you doing, to your comment here, are you doing the best for people, for the best of people, serving humanity rather than trying to replace because, oh, I have a better solution? We'd be better off without the, no, I would say the intricacies of humanity. To me that is the biggest evolution for moving from a feared leader to a trusted leader and my own journey, is understanding all the intricacies of humanity is all the things to enjoy, embrace, and trust. If you don't accept those intricacies, that's actually where you become very fearful, because you're trying to control it for your own viewpoint, your own benefit.
[SUE]
In your business, when you actually run models, and I have, there's five different university level research projects that have been done on my models, it shows that your cost savings or profit Yes. Is somewhere between 5% to 10% typically and you save time as well. There's other research that was done that shows that when you enter into a relationship, a business relationship, and you expect to have a high trust relationship, you actually end up earning two thirds more than you do when you enter in, when you're in a protective mode. Just that open relationship, high probability that if in an interaction in a negotiation, you are trusting, high probability, like 98% that you're going to get that in return. So you have to think about how you are creating your own outcomes in your business simply by how you are going into it with your mindset, which is why the book talks about mindset and values. So the mindset is the principles that create the 10 intentions, and then the values, which are six partnering values that create a high trust environment.
[TYLER]
I believe in a leadership perspective, and that's one of the biggest roles of a leader, is to identify, live, breathe values and communicate a vision that is worthwhile to everyone. It's not just what's good for me, it has to be good for the whole, or no one's going to want to follow. No one's going to want to, going back to one of the words that you said earlier, choose to own that, take ownership in order to be innovative and creative towards that solution. Because at some point you're going to come to a bridge that gets burnt down because of a truck blew up. What can we do to make sure that we can innovate and be creative through that process to find the solution? Let's go and allow you to accomplish what no one else thought you could.
[SUE]
I'm just reading Harvard Business Review today, and they were talking about research that had been done about leadership. Let me grab it real here and I'll show you, I dogeared it, you can see, I dogeared it right here. It was so interesting because they were talking about how they discovered, so this is all about values and this is really, my model is all about alignment. I call it the nozzle effect and they're talking about businesses that were not aligned with their values were 40% less effective.
[TYLER]
Absolutely.
[SUE]
Harvard Business Review on page 41.
[TYLER]
It really ---
[SUE]
40%
[TYLER]
Well, and I think this is what's interesting about, that is we go back into that little piece that you said is our world's demanding it? I think this is what's interesting in the workplace. You look at I'm in my forties, I'm in this crossover between millennial, Gen X, more on the Gen X side but you have a lot of people that are in that position of leadership and much younger that are looking at our predecessors to say, hmm, how many people actually live the values that they said? Two, how many of them created values because that was what needed to be done? You just need to plaster those up on the wall. That means that you're doing the right thing for your customers and your employees or the people that chose to say, huh, what do we want to be about? Why do we want to serve people and what's really important? So when we come to a decision and it's going to challenge our integrity, what values do we hold onto that, make sure we make the right decision? I think that's this, what's driven people to say, nope, we need better because there's been a lot of pretenders, a lot of people saying one thing and acting totally different. I think that's what comes back to that quote that you made is that the companies that actually lived it did a lot better than the ones that just said it.
[SUE]
Yes, just setting it on a piece of paper doesn't help. It's got to be aligned with a vision, with a strategy, with a structure, and with your values, which is your culture. Then you've got to attract the people who are in sync with that as well.
[TYLER]
Absolutely.
[SUE]
So then you get that alignment, you just blast off.
[TYLER]
It's amazing how it you almost, it's one of those things that you have to almost live it to appreciate the how dynamic it really is.
[SUE]
That's probably true. It's probably true. It's interesting too, thinking about generationally was interesting because my father was graduated from high school in 1942. That was, World War II just starting. He had had polio, so he was 4F so he couldn't be drafted and people on the street would point at him and laugh at him and say, what are you doing? My son is at the war. Why aren't you at the war? Eventually, he joined the Merchant Marines and got blown up in the ship three times and floated around in the ocean but those events like that I think define generations. What are the things that are happening at the time? And I think in our generations now, well, COVID I know is going to affect this younger generation, I already see it happening, but it's those things that technologies allowing us to be closer to each other, connected. There's not the differences that it used to be. Any part in the world seems close to us now. It doesn't seem far away. Plus there are trade partners. So the world has become our family. If we're not consistent with that in our values, that's not going to be a good thing for the world.
[TYLER]
Well, I'm not sure if you've read the book. I had the pleasure to interview Jason Dorsey, who wrote The Economy and out of his work, he has identified that, and this was pre-Covid, but I think it still stands true now, is that a 15 year old in the US and Japan have more in common than a 15 year old and a 50 year old in the same country and that's because of this flattening, and you talk about the trade partners. To me that's one of the great changes that I've seen, I have teenage kids, out of Covid and going forward and talking to their teachers, is that we have kids now that have lost a lot of interpersonal skills because they've been behind a screen or they've been able to turn off the camera. They haven't had to interact. So those interactions, they're actually at school having to navigate through more than they've ever had to because now it's front and center. It's not as much the academic principles, it's the interpersonal stuff, which I come back to this idea of a trusted leader. Man, the interpersonal skills are absolutely what it takes. It's the emotional intelligence, not the technical part of it.
[SUE]
Any of us that's been in business for a while, we know that's true. It's 80% that and 20% the technical stuff. My grandson lived with us and he is in high school and these two years and before that he got mono, so for him it was like three years of a four year high. He was at home and yes, it's completely different. I mean, not really interested in driving, not really interested in going anywhere, not really interested in, yes ---
[TYLER]
Which again, I think comes back to the evolving leader needs to understand that and not expect different, and understanding that means I need to do whatever to be trusted instead of getting frustrated and choosing a fear model and say, I'm just going to make people compliant. Because as you mentioned earlier, and I've seen in my life, compliance does not yield a positive result. Compliance just keeps you afloat. It does not move your boat faster to your destination.
[SUE]
Well, I would say it keeps you afloat until it sinks.
[TYLER]
Okay, I would agree with you.
[SUE]
It will always sink you. It is predictable that it will sink you. I mean, it's sort of like watching Russia attack Ukraine. You have a trusted leader and you have a feared leader. The result is going to be predictable
[TYLER]
Yes, it's just when, and not if it's just when. Sue, as you had mentioned to me, a you have a, you put together a training series for The Trusted Leader that's coming out in January. I want to have you talk just real quick about that so that way the listeners can to get an idea so they can get prepared for that coming here in 2023.
[SUE]
Oh, well thank you so much. So in 2023, I've been working this whole year on creating a training. It's six modules based on my book, which was a Wall Street Journal bestseller, yay. It will walk you through step-by-step how to go from where you are, wherever you are in the continuum to level up trust. You will do evaluation of where you are, you'll identify things that where you think you can get your best return on investment for leveling up trust and over the course of the five modules, you will have identified 10 things where you think you can get a significant return on investment for increasing trust. Then module six takes you into a 30-day do the impossible challenge, where you'll pick one of those things where you think you can get the biggest ROI and you will go from thinking it's impossible to possible to probable to inevitable over those 30 days by doing daily practice and training your brain to become a high-trust brain. A lot of it, we have these neuro pathways, we've learned over our childhood and adulthood. So you have to retrain those and create some new neuro pathways. That's really what the training is beginning to help you do. Then you put it into practice to prove to yourself that you can do that.
[TYLER]
To me that's just a, it's changing the mindset. I'm a subscriber to Carol Dweck's work where you can have a growth mindset and I believe, I was talking to someone earlier today, is that I've had to change my leadership style from being more of a feared or more insecure or just afraid leader to being more of a trusted leader. I know you have an assessment, I went through it where you label out on that continuum, the difference between a feared leader to a trusted leader and each of the spots in between. That link will be in our show notes. Thank you for providing that and being an identifier as part of that process where you're moving, but also leads you into that training series.
[SUE]
Yes. You can see where you've all along the continuum between fear and trusted leadership, and you can share it with your whole team and see where you are as a team.
[TYLER]
All right. Well, thank you so much, Sue. I appreciate the conversation, you spending time with us.
[SUE]
Oh, thank you so much for letting me be here and share my thoughts with you. Yes, I appreciate it so much.
[TYLER]
As a wrap up to this episode, like to finish with this idea, Sue mentioned that the leadership style that needs to change are those self-defeating ones, those leadership styles that they seemingly get pushed back into a corner so they end up gravitating more and more towards a fear-based leadership.
Well, next week, November 14th and 15th, there's still an opportunity for you to register, to come join my workshop, the Impact Driven Leader workshop, where I'm going to really walk through this idea of fears and insecurities and how as a leader they're holding you back. You're much like what Sue is saying here, the difference between a feared leader and a trusted leader. I'm going to break that down, going to go through that. That's a free workshop. Love for you to join too. Join in on, go to theimpactdrivenleader.com to get the registration link to register for that workshop. I'd love for you to share with anyone.
At the same point, if you got value out of today's episode, go check out Sue's work. Go take the free Trusted Leader Assessment. I did so and I saw some key areas, and yes, I'm on the trusted side. Why, because I've worked hard at it. I can tell you, as I shared in this episode, there is many, many years, many, many days even where I was the feared leader, part is because my own fears and I've been able to work through those. I want to help you do that because I know when you're more of a trusted leader, you're an impact driven leader. It's possible. I've walked that path, continue to walk that and I'd love to help you do so.
As always, I'd love for you to share this episode, make this available to those that you care near and dear about. Hopefully it helps them improve and grow in their leadership ability and capability. Lastly, I'd love for you to leave a review, a rating, let us know how I'm doing. I mean, our team, my team goes through that and helps me get better. I'd love to serve you in a bigger way. We're closing in on a hundred episodes. Time to start looking to see how I can get even better. Thanks for being here. Till next time, have a good one.
